MattF
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Top man. That's the mark of a real machine.
A few months from now you'll likely not give a damn. That first scratch is always the worst one. 
- Thread starter brewdexta
- Start date
Top man. That's the mark of a real machine.
A few months from now you'll likely not give a damn. That first scratch is always the worst one. 
brewdexta
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I've made a few more scratches, but nothing too bad, mainly through rushing in the few minutes I have spare. Kids were with the grandparents for most of the day so got the first coat of the off-white paint on the interior done then set about reassembling the gearbox. Five new oil seals if it needed it or not, I hate oil leaks.
The glass in the oil level didn't want to seal, tried several fibre washers and O-rings. The cap holding the glass in place had a washer when I took it apart but not the glass, but it leaked oil without a washer too. So took the glass out and sprayed the inside of the retaining cap without 3 coats of blue hylomar gasket jointing compound, let the solvent evaporate, put the glass back in then screwed it on with just the fibre washer between the cap and the lid of the gearbox, seemed to do the trick.
Also took the switches and variable resistor speed control out of the plastic box that forms the remote control for the VFD and mounted them in the old NVR switch, looks much better and the holes were already there and tapped on the side of the column.
Cheers
Andy
The glass in the oil level didn't want to seal, tried several fibre washers and O-rings. The cap holding the glass in place had a washer when I took it apart but not the glass, but it leaked oil without a washer too. So took the glass out and sprayed the inside of the retaining cap without 3 coats of blue hylomar gasket jointing compound, let the solvent evaporate, put the glass back in then screwed it on with just the fibre washer between the cap and the lid of the gearbox, seemed to do the trick.
Also took the switches and variable resistor speed control out of the plastic box that forms the remote control for the VFD and mounted them in the old NVR switch, looks much better and the holes were already there and tapped on the side of the column.
Cheers
Andy
brewdexta
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I've been camping up near Grassington in the Yorkshire dales over the bank holiday so not much done however here's progress so far.
Completed painting the interior off-white so only the odd bolt to paint here and there as I assemble it now.
Ordered two new oilite bushes for the gearbox pulley/tensioner (3/4" x 1" x 1") and all the belts except the one inside the cabinet which is in good nick and in situ. In case somebody else wants to know, I think these are the belts needed, I've posted this on the Tom Senior yahoo site in more detail. I'll let you know when I come to fit them.
main shaft belt - B35
motor belt - A38
gearbox belt - Z39
suds pump belt - Z33 (although the manual does mention a plastic belt for this)
I've also ordered a bit of EN1A steel for the motor pulley sleeve (thanks Ronan and Lawnmowerboy
)
I've now hung the cabinet door, the hinges appear identical but I had to swap them to get an even gap at the bottom of the hinges.
Next job is to put oil in the spindle cone pulley, you can see the grub screw to fill it in the centre of the following photo. I also need to repack the grease in the main shaft bearings before replacing the covers. I guess good lithium general purpose bearing grease will do for the bearings however not sure about the oil for the spindle, the manual doesn't mention what grade this should be, only for the gearbox and "general lubrication". Any ideas while I ask the Tom senior group?
Cheers
Andy
Completed painting the interior off-white so only the odd bolt to paint here and there as I assemble it now.
Ordered two new oilite bushes for the gearbox pulley/tensioner (3/4" x 1" x 1") and all the belts except the one inside the cabinet which is in good nick and in situ. In case somebody else wants to know, I think these are the belts needed, I've posted this on the Tom Senior yahoo site in more detail. I'll let you know when I come to fit them.
main shaft belt - B35
motor belt - A38
gearbox belt - Z39
suds pump belt - Z33 (although the manual does mention a plastic belt for this)
I've also ordered a bit of EN1A steel for the motor pulley sleeve (thanks Ronan and Lawnmowerboy
)I've now hung the cabinet door, the hinges appear identical but I had to swap them to get an even gap at the bottom of the hinges.
Next job is to put oil in the spindle cone pulley, you can see the grub screw to fill it in the centre of the following photo. I also need to repack the grease in the main shaft bearings before replacing the covers. I guess good lithium general purpose bearing grease will do for the bearings however not sure about the oil for the spindle, the manual doesn't mention what grade this should be, only for the gearbox and "general lubrication". Any ideas while I ask the Tom senior group?
Cheers
Andy
brewdexta
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Paint the inside.that's a bit OTT OCD
I know
, trouble is the machine was so dishevelled when I bought it that I had to get rid of the crappy hammerite, but then I don't know when to stop. I thought I may as well do it while I'm at or I will always be looking at it later thinking I should have done it when I had it in bits.I didn't take the main spindle out so it was a bit difficult to paint the top bit but I used to be a gynaecologist, so I'm used to painting the hallway through the letter box......
ronan
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I used a leather belt to run the suds pump and its a disaster,sometimes it works and sometimes (when you really need it) it doesn't. Something much softer like a rubber belt would make sense. I've also seen them converted to electric pumps which mightn't be a bad idea. Tom senior's have the worst suds tank in the history of machine tools, you can't take it out to wash it and all the swarf and crap falls into them.
I didn't know about the grub screw in the bull wheel when i got my tom senior first, first time i ran it it sounded like a barge, i used 90w gear oil and its fine now, i don't know what grade it is supposed to be however.
brewdexta
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Thanks Ronan
I've posted on the Tom Senior yahoo group about oil so will see what opinions I get but I think a EP80W-90 GL4 gear oil should be fine, so 90W sounds good.
I haven't tested the suds pump yet but sounds like I shouldn't be too upset if its cream crackered
Cheers
Andy
ronan
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I haven't tested the suds pump yet but sounds like I shouldn't be too upset if its cream crackered
Cheers
Andy
Mine was all gummed up with dryed out soluble oil and bits of nylon , sorry polyamide, the previous careful owner (not) was cutting. Its a ten minute job to dismantle and clean it though.
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I like the neat solution for the electrical/electronic controls 
would it be worth looking round for an old Bakelite control knob (off a radio?) for the potentiometer, would be more in keeping with the style.
would it be worth looking round for an old Bakelite control knob (off a radio?) for the potentiometer, would be more in keeping with the style.
brewdexta
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I like the neat solution for the electrical/electronic controls
That's an idea
pity our local tip is closing down for about 4 months for redevelopment, I'll keep my eyes peeled for an old radiogram.
brewdexta
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I got some tinkering time today and got around to assembling the column and the pulley's and covers. I wanted to get some space on the bench.
Lifting the column onto the base
inside the column
The pulleys and suds pumps fitted
The bottom cover and pulley covers fitted
Fitted the coolant pipe too
The catch for the pulley cover doesn't fit for some reason, the cover is fully closed so it is not that, will have to think about it a bit before jumping to using a file. I don't think the gearbox moves backwards much as it has recessed cap head bolts but will try that first.
Belts fitted loosely, the motor is yet to be fitted so fitted that as its at the back. The gearbox belt seems the right size but the suds pump is a bit slack and has no separate adjustment, the original belt was a plastic one so will change it to something shorter or something else later.
Just started getting the knee cleaned up after painting ready to fit.
Cheers
Andy
Lifting the column onto the base
inside the column
The pulleys and suds pumps fitted
The bottom cover and pulley covers fitted
Fitted the coolant pipe too
The catch for the pulley cover doesn't fit for some reason, the cover is fully closed so it is not that, will have to think about it a bit before jumping to using a file. I don't think the gearbox moves backwards much as it has recessed cap head bolts but will try that first.
Belts fitted loosely, the motor is yet to be fitted so fitted that as its at the back. The gearbox belt seems the right size but the suds pump is a bit slack and has no separate adjustment, the original belt was a plastic one so will change it to something shorter or something else later.
Just started getting the knee cleaned up after painting ready to fit.
Cheers
Andy
brightspark
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it didnt look that good when it was new 
brewdexta
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Thanks Brightspark!
ronan
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Too true guys - only nice clean virgin steel with no rusty or oily bits
Motor in the base, isn't that on the later VS Ronan?
It is a vs as far as i know brewdexta. I have the tom senior catalogue but its still difficult to tell which model is which as some of the differences were subtle.
I don't know if you know but Tom Senior died in 1983 and the business was taken over by denfords, I think they bought them to remove competition from the small machine tool market. Some info on seniors from their forum. The stickys at the top of the link below are good as there is 92 pages of dimensioned drawings for the senior machines.
http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=53
oooh, just found a manual here :
http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2070
an answer as to what oils to use on these machines.
brewdexta
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Thanks Ronan
Good link to the Denford site, I haven't seen that before, some good stuff there
.
I've already got the manual with the old oil and grease in, its getting modern equivalents that are safe to use. For example if you have some EP80W-90 GL5 gear oil knocking about in the shed like I do it covers both oils mentioned in terms of viscosity. However may be an issue if you have brass meshing with steel gears where the amount of phosphorous and sulphur could encourage wear on the brass gears. evidently it binds very tightly to the brass to create a sacrificial coating, but actually pulls a bit of brass off when it is scuffed off.
As the gearbox is all steel gears I don't see an issue there but there are other location in the slides where brass and bronze meet steel. GL4 is similar to GL5 but roughly half as much phosphorus/sulphur so although better may also cause issues.
The two oils in the manual are I believe ISO68 (SAE20 engine oil or SAE80 gear oil) and ISO100 (SAE30 engine oil or SAE85 gear oil) respectively. Maybe better to get an old style SAE 30 engine oil without detergents.
Cheers
Andy
Good link to the Denford site, I haven't seen that before, some good stuff there
.I've already got the manual with the old oil and grease in, its getting modern equivalents that are safe to use. For example if you have some EP80W-90 GL5 gear oil knocking about in the shed like I do it covers both oils mentioned in terms of viscosity. However may be an issue if you have brass meshing with steel gears where the amount of phosphorous and sulphur could encourage wear on the brass gears. evidently it binds very tightly to the brass to create a sacrificial coating, but actually pulls a bit of brass off when it is scuffed off.
As the gearbox is all steel gears I don't see an issue there but there are other location in the slides where brass and bronze meet steel. GL4 is similar to GL5 but roughly half as much phosphorus/sulphur so although better may also cause issues.
The two oils in the manual are I believe ISO68 (SAE20 engine oil or SAE80 gear oil) and ISO100 (SAE30 engine oil or SAE85 gear oil) respectively. Maybe better to get an old style SAE 30 engine oil without detergents.
Cheers
Andy
brewdexta
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I managed to turn a sleeve and mount the motor last night, I can now confirm the following belt sizes
main shaft belt - B35, unless it has snapped and you want to replace it without taking shafts out in which case use nutlink belting.
motor belt - A38 - just, had to wind motor adjustment right down. As this shares same mechanism for tensioning as the main shaft belt then it can depend on main shaft belt too.
gearbox belt - Z39 - perfect, any shorter and the pulley cover fowls the tensioning pulley
suds pump belt - Z33 - too long, trying a Z32 (although the manual does mention a plastic belt for this).
The sleeve could have er closer tolerances so will be making another up before machining the keyways. Only took 10 minutes and I needed the lathe practice . Needed a 5/8 drill not 16mm however I have some adjustable reamers coming so will drill it out to 15mm and ream the rest.
Also started painting the inside of the knee with off-white, would have looked odd if I did the rest and left this.
The "hand scraped" finish on the front which I think is actually etched has some rust damage and polishing it out would remove the pattern so I've given it a good clean off with solvent to remove all the grease then removed as much as I can of the damage without removing the pattern by using some very fine paste similar to solvol autosol.
Probably Thursday or Friday evening before I get another chance to work on this, should be finished in a couple of weeks then I'll be boring out the front axle on my dexta to remove the ovality caused by running it with a collapsed bush.
Cheers
Andy
main shaft belt - B35, unless it has snapped and you want to replace it without taking shafts out in which case use nutlink belting.
motor belt - A38 - just, had to wind motor adjustment right down. As this shares same mechanism for tensioning as the main shaft belt then it can depend on main shaft belt too.
gearbox belt - Z39 - perfect, any shorter and the pulley cover fowls the tensioning pulley
suds pump belt - Z33 - too long, trying a Z32 (although the manual does mention a plastic belt for this).
The sleeve could have er closer tolerances
so will be making another up before machining the keyways. Only took 10 minutes and I needed the lathe practice . Needed a 5/8 drill not 16mm however I have some adjustable reamers coming so will drill it out to 15mm and ream the rest.Also started painting the inside of the knee with off-white, would have looked odd if I did the rest and left this.
The "hand scraped" finish on the front which I think is actually etched has some rust damage and polishing it out would remove the pattern so I've given it a good clean off with solvent to remove all the grease then removed as much as I can of the damage without removing the pattern by using some very fine paste similar to solvol autosol.
Probably Thursday or Friday evening before I get another chance to work on this, should be finished in a couple of weeks then I'll be boring out the front axle on my dexta to remove the ovality caused by running it with a collapsed bush.
Cheers
Andy
ronan
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Strange but the inside of my universal is painted a bright red , any others I have seen have been the off white colour. Have you looked on fleabay for reamers ? I needed a 25mm one for a job and was able to get one in a job lot of dormer reamers for £12 + the post. What boring head do you have ?
