I do exactly the same I have done for nearly 40 year's including 25 year's of HGV work. I remember when the first hgvs came out with M22 flat seat studs, everyone said " any lube on those and they will come loose" it never happenedwho on earth changes a stud unless its actually knackered though?
There are two reasons why wheel studs are damaged in the first place - 1. too much friction or corrosion causing galling; and 2. rough-ass tightening with too many ugga duggas.
This is why I always use copperease and torque to the manufacturers minimum torque. Will never damage anything, as that extra 20% fastener tension is well within the safety margin by design.
We've had this argument before several times on here, and each time there are people adamantly opposed to lubing wheel bolts - I understand the theories and there are pros and cons both ways. Ultimately I go with lube.
- Thread starter nickk
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DAPPH
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From " The mechanics " stack exchange
Do exactly what the manufacturer of the vehicle states in service information. Why do I say this? The nut rotational friction and bolt clamping force are both affected by the choice of lubricant used or lack thereof. Almost all OEM's specify no lube. This is done for several reasons. Dry results in the most thread rotational friction, a most desirable attribute, this significantly reduces the chances of the lugs backing off and the wheel coming off.
The biggest concern is a wheel coming off at high speed. This is a highly dangerous event because the wheel accelerates ahead of the vehicle as it comes off at great speed and can and has caused deaths.
In these days of spiteful swingeing litigation and HSAW , you take it upon yourself as to if you follow the manufactures instructions .
You can bet your bottom dollar that if someone dies or is seriously injured and or crippled due to your actions and it's proven that it was down to you , you're going to be hung out to dry financially and likely to find out what a trouser ferret in jail is .
Do exactly what the manufacturer of the vehicle states in service information. Why do I say this? The nut rotational friction and bolt clamping force are both affected by the choice of lubricant used or lack thereof. Almost all OEM's specify no lube. This is done for several reasons. Dry results in the most thread rotational friction, a most desirable attribute, this significantly reduces the chances of the lugs backing off and the wheel coming off.
The biggest concern is a wheel coming off at high speed. This is a highly dangerous event because the wheel accelerates ahead of the vehicle as it comes off at great speed and can and has caused deaths.
In these days of spiteful swingeing litigation and HSAW , you take it upon yourself as to if you follow the manufactures instructions .
You can bet your bottom dollar that if someone dies or is seriously injured and or crippled due to your actions and it's proven that it was down to you , you're going to be hung out to dry financially and likely to find out what a trouser ferret in jail is .
jerrytug
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No because lube allows fasteners to be tightened harder.
Munkul
Jack of some trades, Master of none
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No worries, I'm OK with these risks as it simply doesn't happen.
Munkul
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It's an educated guess. The general rule of thumb is that with lube vs dry, the fastener tension is about 30% higher for the same torque.
Wheel nuts have conical faces which increase friction and therefore decrease tension for the same amount of torque vs flat faces. So yes, educated guess is around 20% extra tension for the same torque lubed vs bone dry. I'm not going to bother with maths.
Now what I REALLY think lube is good for is for giving a more consistent tension. There's a HUGE difference between the bolting tension of a clean dry bolt vs a rusty one - in some cases between 300% and 400% lower tension for the same torque. That's NUTS.
Absolutely this.
1. loads of wheels are overtightened on literally millions of cars
2. we don't have millions of accidents due to loose wheels every day
Ergo, overtightened wheelbolts in general, don't cause accidents. And the easiest reason to explain this is that manufacturers build in a good amount of safety factor to their wheel fasteners.
What DOES cause accidents, are loose wheel bolts. Through undertorqueing, or more usually, bad fastener seating... because the fasteners are corroded.
So, in summary, all the crybabies saying "lubed whEEl bOLts wiLL KIll yOU" haven't thought about the issue hard enough.
zzr1200
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Now Now Children....
www.hextechnology.com
Bolt Lubricant and Torque: A Comprehensive Guide - Hex Technology
Bolt lubricant plays an important role during both the assembly and disassembly of a joint. Learn proper lubrication techniques and how they affect torque
www.hextechnology.com
keithski122
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All this argueing about lube or no lube, max torque or min torque.Has anyone ever seen the wrench the manufacturers give you to tighten the wheel up with? I'm sure using it doesn't give very precise results.
jerrytug
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Not to mention the jacks with plastic components
As much as you like to think it doesn't happen, my old boss, along with one of his techs at the time, had to stand in court after a wheel came off a lorry and hit several cars, as he was the one responsible for running the workshop where the lorry had recently been serviced.
I also know somebody who spent an afternoon being interviewed under caution after the rear wheels came of a bus.
If a wheel was to come off and result in somebody dying, and you have not followed either the OEs fitting instructions, or industry best practice, you could realistically be charged with manslaughter. The chances are slim, but it is a possibility. I know I'd much rather follow the OE instructions, or industry best practise, and know I've done everything I can to prevent wheel loss, rather than just do it the way x/y/z have always done it then justify it by saying they've never had any problems.
Manufacturer wheel braces are typically sized so an average person can tighten the wheel nuts/bolts to roughly the correct torque using moderate effort.
It's the same reason why common spanners are the length they are.
DAPPH
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Oh Dear ... let me know which garage you play at & I'll put it on avoid in my sat nav.
Mounting Death Toll From Demounted Tires/Wheels - Tire Review Magazine
“Man dead after flying wheel crushes SUV on Hwy. 400” “Lexington man killed by runaway wheel is mourned” I cannot recall a single week in recent years
www.tirereview.com
8ob
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I looked at those sets, the one I use the most is the 33mm and it’s not in the set
You would of thought the clowns that market these would of included that one.Bob
You'll be wanting a 3/4 Whitworth or 7/8 BSF socket...I looked at those sets, the one I use the most is the 33mm and it’s not in the set
Bob
Only reason I know that, is we had somebody looking for a 33mm socket this week to service the forks on his 'merican cruiser (aka POS Harley Davidson)
brightspark
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Gritineye
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Had new front tyres fitted to my Ducato camper the other day, watched as the 'Professional fitter' ugger duggered the bolts out and in again, the bolts put up a lot of resistance both ways.
After a lot of ugger duggering and crack cracking he got them back in to his satisfaction, then he checked the tourque with a tourque wrench that was probably set to Reliant Robin spec, cos oddly every one clicked nicely, perfick!
Couldn't be bothered to intervene as he was a nice chap and it was only a mile back home, then I checked them with a bar and they were all loose!
Ordered a tap and die from Amazon, which arrived next day, took each wheel bolt out in turn, tapped each thread and died each bolt, then they all went in like new, job done. Sometimes you have to stop winging and get er done.
After a lot of ugger duggering and crack cracking he got them back in to his satisfaction, then he checked the tourque with a tourque wrench that was probably set to Reliant Robin spec, cos oddly every one clicked nicely, perfick!
Couldn't be bothered to intervene as he was a nice chap and it was only a mile back home, then I checked them with a bar and they were all loose!
Ordered a tap and die from Amazon, which arrived next day, took each wheel bolt out in turn, tapped each thread and died each bolt, then they all went in like new, job done. Sometimes you have to stop winging and get er done.
Munkul
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Yawn. I'm guessing you're the guy who would always come up with 100 reasons why something was a bad idea and never offer any critical thinking or solutions.
Mounting Death Toll From Demounted Tires/Wheels - Tire Review Magazine
“Man dead after flying wheel crushes SUV on Hwy. 400” “Lexington man killed by runaway wheel is mourned” I cannot recall a single week in recent years
Anyway don't worry, i barely touch even my own car with a spanner now
doubleboost
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I do or at least did this for a living .
Normally undo the wheel fastenings with a battery impact gun (used to be a windy gun)
Replaced with the same gun set on low setting about 40 FT LB
If they were dry a thin smear of copper slip or something similar .
Then torqued to the manufacturers recommended setting .
This is always done no matter how much of a hurry the lads are in .
Every service bay has a torque wrench and a set of plastic coated wheel sockets hanging on one of the ramp posts .
The locking bolt / nut is just left at a run up state .
Using a impact gun all day every day you get a feel for things .
Alloy wheels that are hot after being ran on the road can have stupid tight bolts due to the expansion of the wheels .
Normally undo the wheel fastenings with a battery impact gun (used to be a windy gun)
Replaced with the same gun set on low setting about 40 FT LB
If they were dry a thin smear of copper slip or something similar .
Then torqued to the manufacturers recommended setting .
This is always done no matter how much of a hurry the lads are in .
Every service bay has a torque wrench and a set of plastic coated wheel sockets hanging on one of the ramp posts .
The locking bolt / nut is just left at a run up state .
Using a impact gun all day every day you get a feel for things .
Alloy wheels that are hot after being ran on the road can have stupid tight bolts due to the expansion of the wheels .
Bobupndown
What could possibly go wrong?
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I think a little copper grease on the threads, not the seating faces of the nuts or bolts, probably won't do much harm. I've been doing it for 30+ years without any issues.
keithski122
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Mounting Death Toll From Demounted Tires/Wheels - Tire Review Magazine
“Man dead after flying wheel crushes SUV on Hwy. 400” “Lexington man killed by runaway wheel is mourned” I cannot recall a single week in recent years
Same here, but really can't be bothered to do my own stuff now.
Hand start the nut/bolt, wind in with gun just until contact, lower car so wheel is just touching ground then torque up.Don'yt put lower car to ground until wheel cap is on, don't put wheel cap on until wheels are torqued.
I use a smear of oil as I hate copper slip as the stuff always seems to get everywhere...........put a smear on the bolt and somehow its up your arm,in your ear, on the door handle of the car 30ft away.
To the person that has their wheels on and off several times a year, what is wrong with them that they need this so often?, mine are done once a year when its serviced.
