UK towing

[normspanners]

BUT the main problem with the disco is the rear brakes are pressure limited, they do not have load sensing valve which means the brakes do not increase as the load is applied and that creates a light front end when braking HARD with a trailer on cromwells

HA------- sorry chaps not really sure where that came from, but was trying to find 12x1.25 split die at the same time this morning, as posting the above, and typed crowells into google search to get their phone number, somehow its made its way on here instead of what I was actually typing here !!
that should have read when braking hard with a trailer on, as the trailer nose dips and puts more load on the tow ball it lightens the front of the tow vehicle and can cause front end lockup.

 

[normspanners]

If you can put your question as clearly & succinctly as possible on here I can put it through the official channels I use to get a reply.

It is really important that the question is worded to leave no doubt about what is the issue.

They are very good at answering the questions asked even if the question is wrong.

Well I received a reply from IVS only took a month !!

Dear Sir/Madam


Thank you for your email dated 5 May to our IVS enquiries inbox. I have been asked to reply.


Please click on this link which will take you to our information sheet entitled “towing a trailer with a car or van- the basics” which I hope you find useful:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/towing-a-trailer-with-a-car-or-van


You will need to contact the manufacturer of the vehicle and ask them what your vehicle Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) or train weight is. They should also be able to let you know if what is stated in the handbook is correct.

Yours sincerely

James Brown

Department for Transport


my reply ;

Thank you for your reply but in this .gov doc https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/weight-and-width-limits, it states

2. Towing weight and width limits
Most cars have a maximum weight they can tow. It’s usually listed in the handbook or specification sheet.

Alternatively the vehicle’s ‘gross train weight’ may be listed on the vehicle identification number (VIN) plate on the car. This is normally under the bonnet or inside the driver’s door.

The gross train weight is the weight of the fully-loaded car plus fully-loaded trailer and must not be exceeded.

If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.



Which I have highlighted in green and states that If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should NOT use your vehicle for towing.

which seems to differ from the advice in the doc you sent me a link to.

As my vehicle has no GTW stamping or anything on v5 how do I stand if stopped at one your goverment weighbridge checkpoints . I have contacted the manufacturer and they state the vehicle handbook has the information and they do not keep records, of older vehicles but this is still not covering the stament on your document highlighted in green that if the VIN plate does not list a train weight I should NOT tow

Please clarify these points as there are many vehicle that do not list the GTW on their vin plate especially vehicles pre 1997

Best regards

 

[Justme]

Lol that is a typical reply from the public facing part of them.


Miss read the question, fail to answer the question, point to easily found info online that also does not answer the question.

 

[Justme]

Do you have the handbook?

 

[Shox Dr]

Lol that is a typical reply from the public facing part of them.


Miss read the question, fail to answer the question, point to easily found info online that also does not answer the question.

Any idea what would happen if you were stopped using such information.

 

[Justme]

Any idea what would happen if you were stopped using such information.

Who knows.

The police forces method seems to rely heavily on, not sure issue ticket & let the courts sort it out IF you take it that far & just dont accept the ticket.

As they seem to contradict each other I would think that a court would take the view that a reasonable person would seek further clarification before doing X again. IE dont do it till you get a 100% responce.

 

[Shox Dr]

Who knows.

The police forces method seems to rely heavily on, not sure issue ticket & let the courts sort it out IF you take it that far & just dont accept the ticket.

As they seem to contradict each other I would think that a court would take the view that a reasonable person would seek further clarification before doing X again. IE dont do it till you get a 100% responce.

So when do you stop asking And when you do, which 'answer' do you rely on.

Not only that how many people would 'question' the first reply they received, and ask again.

 

[HughF]

It's pretty simple, if you want to tow, go get something that is actually plated to tow 3500 (so there's no issue of a trailer being heavier than the vehicle can tow) and make sure your license covers you....

 

[Shox Dr]

It's pretty simple, if you want to tow, go get something that is actually plated to tow 3500 (so there's no issue of a trailer being heavier than the vehicle can tow) and make sure your license covers you....

That's ok if you want to tow that much, and you are prepared to buy other vehicle.

What do you do if you just want to use your current vehicle, with a smaller trailer.

 

[Justme]

That's ok if you want to tow that much, and you are prepared to buy other vehicle.

What do you do if you just want to use your current vehicle, with a smaller trailer.

You check the numbers, just the same.

If youi ask for advise & they give you one reply then you rely on it.

When as in this case they give you a reply with one response but tell you to check another source that says another then they cant even agree themselves so is their advice worth ****?

If you are wanting to go against the grain you need to be pre armed with enough proofs to shut them down if they try to enforce.

 

[normspanners]

Do you have the handbook?

Luckily yes I have managed to get it , but it is a generic handbook but does state 3500 gross trailer weight for the 300 tdi but doesnt mention auto btw BUT there still is this:- If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing.-----------stated in a gov doc.!
they would have to be pretty pedantic to continue faced with the handbook IMO, and as we all know they are NOT pedantic at all are they

QUOTE="HughF, post: 1011596, member: 784"]It's pretty simple, if you want to tow, go get something that is actually plated to tow 3500[/QUOTE]
why change my vehicle ? it is designed to tow, what I need ------- all I need is confirmation------- easy eh!!
I have seen some cars that are not designed to tow, with trailers on them how do they get on ?

 

[HughF]

why change my vehicle ? it is designed to tow, what I need ------- all I need is confirmation------- easy eh!!
I have seen some cars that are not designed to tow, with trailers on them how do they get on ?

Why don't you just stamp the vin plate yourself?

 

[normspanners]

Well dear me a quick reply this time but they dont see the problem!!
As an mot'r I see quite a few cars with nothing on the plate

Dear Sir/Madam


Thank you for your email dated 21 June to our IVS enquiries inbox. I have been asked to reply.


We don’t see any contradiction between the two pieces of advice.


We are not aware that there are lots of cars and vans without a train weight marked on the plate. In our experience only Japanese grey imports are in this situation.


Yours sincerely

James Brown

Department for Transport

 

[colnerov]

Hi, Playing devils advocate - They are right, if there's a weight on the VIN plate you stick to it. If there no weight you don't tow with it (because it's not approved for towing). As it's the manufacturer that applies the VIN plate then I suppose you should take it up with them (good luck with that) because they haven't sought approval for that individual vehicle. This is, I think, something to do with the certificate of conformity issued for every vehicle. Heaven forbid the DVSA should make a judgement call that's not in their favour. If you check the towing weights for all the different options of a particular make and model, there's usually a range of towing weights.

Colin

 

[Justme]

There are companies that will plate it to tow for you for a fee.

 

[normspanners]

Hi, Playing devils advocate - They are right, if there's a weight on the VIN plate you stick to it. If there no weight you don't tow with it (because it's not approved for towing).

but a discovery is not only approved for towing it was designed for towing, why would it have a factory fitted towbar ? and why would the weights be in the handbook ?

 

[Justme]

but a discovery is not only approved for towing it was designed for towing, why would it have a factory fitted towbar ? and why would the weights be in the handbook ?

Hand books are generic for the entire range.

Some markets dont allow towing or you need a high licence.

So any vehicle rated to tow would not be allowed to be sold into that market.

Unless its on the plate / V5 its not legal to tow.

 

[Pete.]

The link says that you SHOULD not tow with it, not that you MUST not tow with it. Huge distinction in terms of legality one is advice the other will be covered by a specific legislation.

It's a bit like dotted-border chevrons and solid-border chevrons. Dotted = should not enter solid = must not enter (unless in an emergency).

 

[normspanners]

The link says that you SHOULD not tow with it, not that you MUST not tow with it.

Exactly Pete I have mentioned that point, somewhere before, should not is a recommendation----must not is an order----- IMO?

my handbook says it can tow a 3500kg trailer and 4000kg with coupled brakes and one ministry doc plainly states " it will directly specify the max weight of trailer in the handbook" AND IT DOES------and it also states it may be on the plate so where does that leave you---or ME infact.

The capability of the towing vehicle

The chassis plate on the vehicle (see table in Section 7) states the maximum weights allowed - the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and the Gross Combination Weight (GCW).

The vehicle handbook will either repeat what is on the chassis plate, or for convenience, might directly specify the maximum weight of trailer (eg 750kg) which is allowed to be towed. The V5C registration certificate often ( NOT ALWAYS???) shows this too, under sections O1 and O2 (depending on whether trailer has brakes or not). Exceeding any of the above weights is likely to be construed as using a vehicle in a dangerous condition.

Where the sum of the maximum plated weights of the towing vehicle and of the trailer added together exceed the plated GCW of the towing vehicle, this is not a problem as long as the ‘actual’ weights of the vehicle and trailer (which may not be fully laden at the time) do not exceed the plated GCW.

 

[rcx132]

The link says that you SHOULD not tow with it, not that you MUST not tow with it. Huge distinction in terms of legality one is advice the other will be covered by a specific legislation.

It's a bit like dotted-border chevrons and solid-border chevrons. Dotted = should not enter solid = must not enter (unless in an emergency).

Police also told me that I "should not" tow an older trailer that was built pre-plating rules, even though it's perfectly legal to tow such trailers.