Tos FN22 milling machine (Deckel clone)

[Pete.]

The y axis screw is a beefy screw which is driven manually through a bevel drive from the handwheel or in auto-feed by a reversing bevel gearbox operated by a lever on the side of the machine near the top.

Here's the screw, it's in fantastic condition, not surprising since it's constantly spalsh-fed gearbox oil. Note the keyway in the end that picks up drive from the auto-feed gear.



Big chunky bronze nut with backlash adjusters. The middle bolt jacks the halves apart and the two end bolts pull them in at either end. To adjust the nut you loosen the middle bolt, pinch up the ends to achieve your desired backlash/sticktion then tighten the middle bolt again.



Grub screw to give access for adjusting the nut. Hasn't been out in an age.



And here's the assembly in place and how to adjust the nut.



The end of the screw slides into the shaft of the auto-feed control gears and takes it's drive from a key slot. The two bevel gears are free-spinning on the shaft and turn with the bottom gear which is driven by a vertical shaft from the gearbox in the machine base. The dog clutch slides either way to engage in or out for the axis. The big gear on the left is just an idler that takes drive from the gearbox below and transfers it to the spindle above. The slot in the housing next to the big gear is for the retaining fork for the spindle sliding gear.



This is the spindle gear above that meshes with the idler. It slides on the spindle spline and is held in place with a fork which must be removed before you can take the top slide off. It is held by a single bolt and comes out by tapping the base out of the slot - it only comes out one way as I discovered after a good bit of trying.



The spindle assembly as viewed from above. Sliding gear on the right that brings drive to the spindle. Fixed gear on the left that drives the milling or slotting head.

 

[Windy Miller]

Absolutely fascinating stuff @Pete.

Really would have liked to see the unloading process yesterday and it would have been great to meet the other guys involved too, but we had a house full of partying 7&8 year olds so my services were definitely required indoors! Sh1t timing as always!

 

[Ton-up]

What a superbly built machine, thanks for doing such a detailed write up Pete.

 

[minimutly]

The y axis screw is a beefy screw which is driven manually through a bevel drive from the handwheel or in auto-feed by a reversing bevel gearbox operated by a lever on the side of the machine near the top.

Here's the screw, it's in fantastic condition, not surprising since it's constantly spalsh-fed gearbox oil. Note the keyway in the end that picks up drive from the auto-feed gear.

View attachment 328186

Big chunky bronze nut with backlash adjusters. The middle bolt jacks the halves apart and the two end bolts pull them in at either end. To adjust the nut you loosen the middle bolt, pinch up the ends to achieve your desired backlash/sticktion then tighten the middle bolt again.

View attachment 328187

Grub screw to give access for adjusting the nut. Hasn't been out in an age.

View attachment 328189

And here's the assembly in place and how to adjust the nut.

View attachment 328188

The end of the screw slides into the shaft of the auto-feed control gears and takes it's drive from a key slot. The two bevel gears are free-spinning on the shaft and turn with the bottom gear which is driven by a vertical shaft from the gearbox in the machine base. The dog clutch slides either way to engage in or out for the axis. The big gear on the left is just an idler that takes drive from the gearbox below and transfers it to the spindle above. The slot in the housing next to the big gear is for the retaining fork for the spindle sliding gear.

View attachment 328185

This is the spindle gear above that meshes with the idler. It slides on the spindle spline and is held in place with a fork which must be removed before you can take the top slide off. It is held by a single bolt and comes out by tapping the base out of the slot - it only comes out one way as I discovered after a good bit of trying.

View attachment 328183

The spindle assembly as viewed from above. Sliding gear on the right that brings drive to the spindle. Fixed gear on the left that drives the milling or slotting head.

View attachment 328184

It's a very different design, you wonder at what point someone said "you see all this heavy knee stuff everyone's making? Let's try something else!"

 

[Pete.]

It's a very different design, you wonder at what point someone said "you see all this heavy knee stuff everyone's making? Let's try something else!"

I'm not sure they did. The original design is at least 100yrs old.

Deckel FP1 1920s Photo Essay

 

[Maker]

I had to remove the gearbox 'cover' the other side which houses the gear selector. After removing all of the cap screws it wouldn't budge - it was held on two dowels.

View attachment 328166

The dowels had a grub screw in them that you remove and screw in a m6 bolt to drift out the taper pin. I popped both pins out and the whole gearbox came out!

View attachment 328163

Such a good design you can pull the whole unit complete, do any servicing, set up the selectors and fit the whole thing back in the hole.

View attachment 328164

The gearbox and selector mechanism is allin great condition but there is one sloppy bearing in there so I am going to change them all.

View attachment 328165

I love that gearbox, I can see why people like Deckels so much!

 

[8ob]

What a superbly built machine, thanks for doing such a detailed write up Pete.

Its a truly amazing bit of kit, I have never seen so much crammed into such a small machine. Dont know what @Pete. `s been snorting but he is flying at it now

Bob

 

[pressbrake1]

The main work hasn't even started yet! The machine is still stuck in Bob's yard

Have you noticed how much more stout the main casting is than the other clones or even the original Mk2 Deckel FP-1? The Deckel and Alexander have an almost square column with the motor outside where this one has a very deep main housing with all of the motor and gearing held within it. I think it's about 800kg bare. Typical over-built eastern block stuff.

Alexander Master Toolmaker

Deckel FP1 Millers Page 2

Deckel FP1, FP2, FP3, FP3L, FP4 milling machines, DZ4 machinin centre. and Deckel Tool & Cutter Grinders GSO, SO, SOE, All-models catalogue 1988

www.lathes.co.uk

As machine tool export and import was based on tonnage eastern block stuff seemed always a bit heavier which isn’t a bad thing!

 

[minimutly]

I love that gearbox, I can see why people like Deckels so much!

It's by no means unique, my Richmond has the cutter gearbox and 3 way table gearboxes both coming out the side. To be fair it would have been a mare trying to build them any other way so you can see why they did it.

 

[Pete.]

It's by no means unique, my Richmond has the cutter gearbox and 3 way table gearboxes both coming out the side. To be fair it would have been a mare trying to build them any other way so you can see why they did it.

Someone should have told Denford about it their lathe tumbler gearboxes are awful to work on. When you fit the front plate the tumbler falls out of index and you can only align it with the front plate on.

 

[Pete.]

I stripped the table ways lubrication pump down, which wasn't anything more than un-doing one nut, and it's all working properly. It's not a spring-loaded one like on my HLV it's a simple plunger and one way valve which you pull then push to operate.



The rubber seals were perished so I had to replace them. The big seal I swapped for a dowty washer so that should last forever.



The ene seal is important because it has to seal properly against a face or the oil will simly be pumped back into a reservoir. it has to be the correct thickness. I worked out a way to measure the proper thickness for the rubber seal. I removed the dowty washer and screwed the oil pump into the hole until it bottomed out, then measured the gap under the head.with a feeler gauge.



The feeler was 25 thou so that told me the end seal had to be 25 thou thinner than the dowty washer. The dowty washer was 100 thou thick on the metal ring and 125 thou across the rubber lip seal.



So if I had a soft rubber seal on the end of the pump that was anything betwen 100 thou and 125 thou it would seal properly. I had a thick rubber washer that would do the job but it needed thinning out to 100 thou. You can't easily turn rubber but you can grind it no problem. I superglued it to some 1/4" gauge plate and ground it down to size.



Once that was done I simply superglued it to the end of the pump.



That's the pump seviced and installed.

 

[Pete.]

Next job was to pull the motor . It's a big heavy open-frame cast iron job. Obviously good quality. Back in post #200 I discussed converting this motor to be a 4-pole 240v 3 phase motor by re-configuring the windings. However I knew I had some sort of problem with it because when we put 3 phase power to the machine at Bob's place it ran perfectly in slow speed but made horrible noises in high. I figured it was most likely a switching issue because the phases must all be in good conditionor it wouldn't run in slow. Well, I was wrong.

First I mapped the wiring between the motor and the complicated switch so that I had a reference.





Next I pulled out the motor.



It's a big heavy bastid 36kg!



When I belled out the phases I found that one of the high speed connections was open circuit so I pulled off the connection block and found my problem.



One of the tails was loose, closer inspection showed a small evidence of arcing and it was right where it came out of the housing into the junction box. I think it was pulled tight and eventually shorted on the casing some time ago. I did find the other end of this tail easily enough.



So now I have to decide which way to go. My plan was to dig into the field coil wiring and find three connection points then split them apart and re-connect them. Having had this problem though it was clear to me that the insulation was very fragile and the sleeving, varnish and wire coating was just going to crack and flake away if I just touched it. So I'm abandoning this lovely motor and I'm going to fit a more modern one.

I do have this 2.2kw WEG motor here which will fit the bill. It's a good quality iron casing motor with a flange mount. I would have preferred a foot mount but I don't have one to hand. I can make an adapter plate for this one if nothing suitable comes along.



If anyone has a decent foot-mount 2.2kw motor with a 25mm or 1" output shaft going spare please let me know. I now wish I had kept the brand new Siemens one I sold some time back as it would have been perfect.

 

[Brad93]

Likely be East German given the age of the mschine

 

[Mark Davison]

Have you considered a 230 to 380v (chinese) VFD

 

[Pete.]

Have you considered a 230 to 380v (chinese) VFD

I'm not against them Mark but I already have the VFD I think it's a Siemens unit.

 

[Mark Davison]

I've got a 2hp cast iron dual voltage brooke Compton you're welcome to. Unused. Unfortunately it's a metric frame and probably underpowered if it came with a 3hp.

 

[roofman]

Next job was to pull the motor . It's a big heavy open-frame cast iron job. Obviously good quality. Back in post #200 I discussed converting this motor to be a 4-pole 240v 3 phase motor by re-configuring the windings. However I knew I had some sort of problem with it because when we put 3 phase power to the machine at Bob's place it ran perfectly in slow speed but made horrible noises in high. I figured it was most likely a switching issue because the phases must all be in good conditionor it wouldn't run in slow. Well, I was wrong.

First I mapped the wiring between the motor and the complicated switch so that I had a reference.

View attachment 328316

View attachment 328315

Next I pulled out the motor.

View attachment 328317

It's a big heavy bastid 36kg!

View attachment 328318

When I belled out the phases I found that one of the high speed connections was open circuit so I pulled off the connection block and found my problem.

View attachment 328319

One of the tails was loose, closer inspection showed a small evidence of arcing and it was right where it came out of the housing into the junction box. I think it was pulled tight and eventually shorted on the casing some time ago. I did find the other end of this tail easily enough.

View attachment 328320

So now I have to decide which way to go. My plan was to dig into the field coil wiring and find three connection points then split them apart and re-connect them. Having had this problem though it was clear to me that the insulation was very fragile and the sleeving, varnish and wire coating was just going to crack and flake away if I just touched it. So I'm abandoning this lovely motor and I'm going to fit a more modern one.

I do have this 2.2kw WEG motor here which will fit the bill. It's a good quality iron casing motor with a flange mount. I would have preferred a foot mount but I don't have one to hand. I can make an adapter plate for this one if nothing suitable comes along.

View attachment 328321

If anyone has a decent foot-mount 2.2kw motor with a 25mm or 1" output shaft going spare please let me know. I now wish I had kept the brand new Siemens one I sold some time back as it would have been perfect.

I have my Harrison original foot mount here mate if you want it..just cover courier and its yours

 

[Pete.]

I've got a 2hp cast iron dual voltage brooke Compton you're welcome to. Unused. Unfortunately it's a metric frame and probably underpowered if it came with a 3hp.

Thanks Mark for the offer but I really want to get as much beef out of it as I can. I want to be able to swing those big horizontal slab mills if I have to.

I have my Harrison original foot mount here mate if you want it..just cover courier and its yours

What spec it it please? Can I get a photo?

 

[roofman]

Thanks Mark for the offer but I really want to get as much beef out of it as I can. I want to be able to swing those big horizontal slab mills if I have to.



What spec it it please? Can I get a photo?

I will dig it out tomorrow and furnish you with pics...its off my 11"

 

[Pete.]

I will dig it out tomorrow and furnish you with pics...its off my 11"

Online search suggests a 1.5hp motor single voltage. Shame because the frame size looks very similar and the open frame matches.

I have had the offer of a 3hp motor from a member for a good price. The only bug in the ointment being the 24mm shaft and my 25mm bore pulley but I can fix that.