Me again, more odd behaviour :(

  1. matt1978

    matt1978 http://www.uk.masters-of-speed.de/

    You'd be surprised. There is a lot of poor quality on the market especially at the lower end.

    What amperage was you welding at? Which gas mix?

    The torch has a duty cycle and when you weld with gases with a her percentage of Argon, A light mix for example then this further reduces the duty cycle.

    Your videos are too short for proper anylisis but certainly looks like a wire feed issue to me and one of the most common causes is something to do with the torch.
     
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  2. Hitch

    Hitch Moderator Staff Member

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    50% of the time people complain about the welder, the torch, the tips... its the torch all kinked up on the floor....restricting the proper wire feed.
     
    matt1978 likes this.
  3. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    This is a brand new Esab Rebel 215, certainly way above the lower end of the market, way way above :)

    I was welding 3mm steel on 0.8mm Lincoln wire, IIRC 114-120A at 14v on the sMig or fully synergic setting. This is way down into the machines capability and duty cycle was not a factor as the torch had not even warmed up - 15 or so 1" beads is nothing at all especially as i was fitting up in between.

    The gas is BOC Argoshield light at 8lpm
     
  4. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    LOL - maybe but, This torch only has a 3m lead and its heavy - maybe 3/4" thick so not easily kinked, in my setup its a nice easy U-bend from welder to bench.
     
  5. matt1978

    matt1978 http://www.uk.masters-of-speed.de/

    I was talking about the torch quality not the machine. A lot a rebranding goes on. Cheap tips, almost 100% copper, gets hot and stays hot and exacerbates the problem. I've worked in the Industry for almost 25 years and the torch is almost always to blame in some capacity, it is rarely the machine esp in cicumstances like you describe

    Anyway if your adamant it cannot be the torch it still seems to be a wire feed issue.

    BTW What model torch is it? MB equivalent
     
  6. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    Yes, pretty certain the torch is not a mega-quality part, it takes the same consumables as the MB15 and feels just like the Binzel did on the R-Tech I had.

    I'm not adamant about anything but this is a really baffling issue.

    Lets say it was the feed (theres a gag there if you ever watched Leslie Nielsen in Police Squad :) ), so the arc strikes and the feed stops - the arc goes out as there is nowhere near enough voltage to maintain an arc 25-30mm long - so what is causing the flare-up/flame?? It was just as if the Argoshield had been replaced with Acetylene or something that burns intensely bright.

    Are we saying the wire ignited? This was not a piece of wire blowing like a fuse - that would likely glow, break and go out.

    There was metal deposited on the work but it was in a sort of thin puddle not a built up bead at all.
     
  7. Badger1bear

    Badger1bear If your not on fire, then your too far away

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    just throwing this one out there.......the rebel settings are actually set for mild steel are they ?
     
  8. Hood

    Hood If it walks like a duck....

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    The wire just slows drastically and burns back towards the tip so you get a huge wide arc and thus a flare like glow. If the wire is jammed up then it will melt in the tip but if there is just enough feed then it will maybe just manage to stay clear.
     
  9. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    Yes, checked several times :)
     
  10. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    I might try backing off the feed all the way and see if i can recreate the fault.
     
  11. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

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    If you find yourself near Southampton you are welcome to drop in and I'll take a look. Sounds awfully like a torch issue. Loose tip, damaged tip or incorrect rollers or roller tension, most likely a combination though.
    Could also be a gas problem too.
     
  12. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    Thanks.

    I was thinking gas but is that possible? Does it settle out at all?
     
  13. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

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    No, but it could be too much gas to start with, dragging in air. Especially if the regulator is over pressurising.
     
  14. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    Interesting, i thought too much just gave crappy welds, i'll check again on the peashooter.

    Its only a single-stage, two-gauge reg and not a high-quality unit so maybe???
     
  15. matt1978

    matt1978 http://www.uk.masters-of-speed.de/

    Genuine BZL MB 15's are "supposed" to be rated at 150 amps.

    But IMHO that is way to much for that size torch, so the 100% duty cycle rating is going to be about 100 amps, then factor in that your using mixed gas and not 100% Co2 (which the torch was originally designed for) and it would probably only be around 60-80 amps duty cycle.

    As I said before the tips Will probably be generic copies with a very high copper content, getting hot and binding.

    If you put a new tip in and the torch is stone cold and it Weld's fine but the issue only starts after a "prolonged" period of welding then I'd definitely say it's the torch and tip.

    If you change the tip and the torch is stone cold and the problem occours only after 1 or 2 welds then I'd say it's the liner and/or slipping on the rollers.

    Can you feel any juddering/stabbing from the wire
     
  16. Jim Davey

    Jim Davey R H Davey Welding Supplies Ltd

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    Good points from Matt. Also, it's a really obvious one but a torch neck is basically a heatsink for the top. It's ability to efficiently draw heat away from the tip is drastically reduced if the tip is loose. It must be nipped up better than finger tight (no need for a 12" spanner either) or you'll encounter overheating, premature tip wear and inconsistent welds.
     
  17. Hood

    Hood If it walks like a duck....

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    Do you not think it is more likely some spatter blocked the wires passage? especially when the OP said the following.
    Seems to me the torch would have cooled in that time. Granted it could be distorted and thus restricting the flow so cooling would have no effect, but only after 25" of weld and only in short 1" bursts with time in between?
     
  18. Richard.

    Richard. Forum Supporter

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    The rebel torch iirc is called an mxl200. I don't know what the DC is on it but I'd hazard a guess it means it's a 200 amp torch for some amount of time.
     
  19. Davek0974

    Davek0974 Arse!, Drink!, Girls!

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    The tips are branded Esab's at the moment, still using the ones that came with.

    No juddering is felt or heard, the only changes are that the sizzle disappears, the arc disappears, an intense white flame appears and is accompanied by a very high pitched whiny noise - not very loud but its there.


    So, let me get this straight:) Allowing for setup issues - loose feed rolls, wrong gas flow, we are still suspecting the equipment?


    Lets look at this from my POV, I had issues with an R-Tech which i grade as a high-end hobby machine, so i dropped what i class as some serious £££ on a new machine, only to find it was likely a crap reel of wire - OK lesson in life learnt, won't happen again :)

    Now, I have a great machine which i class as a lower-end industrial unit i.e. not made for hammering all day every day, BUT I'm still suffering odd intermittent issues ??????

    I must have really ****** off the welding gods or something :(

    Surely if you spend a lot of cash on an industry branded welder then the torch that comes with had damn well better be rated and matched for the duty cycle of the machine!!

    It surely can not be a torch issue - the whole thing is brand new and done no more than a few feet of weld in total.

    So, again from my POV, the things I have NOT changed - Gas, regulator, myself - everything else is new including all gas lines and the system holds pressure perfectly with the gas off so no leaks on the feed side.

    The tricky part for me is i am on my own - i can't weld and watch the wire feed, gas flow etc. at the same time.

    I can't see anyone else suffering like this on here or on the 'net so it must be one of my three unchanged factors???


    Thanks for the help BTW :)
     
  20. Woody.v8

    Woody.v8 Blue gluer

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    Is there anyone local on the forum who could pop around and have a look with you?
     
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