Energy suppliers

[prepman]

I switch to immersion heater during the summer too, heat it on off-peak overnight and the tank normally lasts the day

Don't have the white meter (or a working SMART one)

 

[fizzy]

Immersion heaters are very expensive. You are far better off using a gas or oil combi boiler. Or even better in summer use an electric shower. You don't really need hot water so much these days. Dishwasher - washing machine - electric shower - they just heat it when you need it.
I have baths occasionally but in Winter when the boiler is running anyway.

 

[prepman]

I suffer from the same problem, water is heated by immersion heater but pipe run means it is well over 2 bowls before I get warm water. However I wonder if going to one of those "electric geysers" and leaving the hot tank and pipes to go cold, would lead to corrosion in both, as I heard that it is the heat that stops oxygen in the water from doing damage. Anyone know if this is true.

Steel corrosion or copper? With copper provided water ph is >7 then not an issue. Copper oxide forms (brown). However with acid it forms a verdigris (green) which leads to a holed system. Brass de-zincs and crumbles like a 'Crunchie' bar. I have a ph corection vessel filled with 'Juraperle' for my spring water supply. Steel will be attacked by dissolved oxygen. Passivation reduces it.

 

[prepman]

Aren't some of them accessed via the DNO infrastructure?

DunNO What's that?

 

[merryman]

Hardly expoitation, BP accept what others are prepared to pay for their products. Couple of years ago nobody wanted petrol/diesel and they made a loss. As for electric companies, depends on what you mean, the ones you pay for your electricity, made a loss last year, which is why many went broke, because the price cap was lower than what they had to pay their suppliers for electricity. The "big six" mostly survived because they generate electricity too, so while the retail side made a paper loss, the generator side mostly made much more profit. Gas generators didn't, as they had to pay more for gas but Nuclear and the renewables costs didn't go up much, so got a windfall. I assume this is what the windfall tax will fall on. The energy market was always flawed. Right from privatisation it was never going to work for the benefit of consumers. Because gas generation costs more, the retailers were willing to pay the renewable generators more. However the renewable generators were getting all sorts of incentives to grow, that is what the "green levy" is for, so consumers end up paying the green levy which producers no longer need, extra standing charges, to upgrade the system, which the green levy was also for, and more for their electricity, part of which is supposed to be going into "investment in infrastructure" so consumers pay three times for the same thing, neat trick.

 

[fizzy]

Been thinking about this a lot lately. If the likes of BP are making billions extra out of our misery with their exploitation of the fuel crisis, how many billions of extra profit are the electric companies making? When do we get to see their sales figures?

A lot of the electricity companies went bust recently.

 

[Morrisman]

Quite honestly I would be more than happy to remove the loft tank, pipes and wiring as they will never be used again, but will leave as is unless there is a problem. Had the bath removed and a shower unit installed so no need for 20 gallons of hot water.

At my old place I had a hot bath every night, filled to the brim, as hot as I could bear. For a test I once had a shower with the plug in, and it only filled the bath 3" deep. Where I am now there is only an electric shower, so I'm pretty glad really. My bulk lpg bill would be far, far higher if I had a bath tub here.

 

[fizzy]

EDF supplies a lot. In France their
Electricity has gone up less than 5% Funnily enough the trend with EDF supplied energy here doesn’t follow the same .
Increase in the U.K….. 54% Profiteering here we go again

Britain gets around 45% - 55% of it's electricity from gas - the price of gas went nuts because of Putin.
France get's most of it's electricity from nuclear - which Putin has no control over.

 

[James1979]

I

Because of the problem of heating a loft immersion tank and using 5 lt of water before it ran hot , I had an under sink heater fitted just over a year ago. Best thing I ever did. I even asked my plumber about putting one in the bathroom, just for the sink, but he came up with the alternative of t piecing the current unit it the bathroom at a quarter the price. Works perfect. There are valves on all feeds so only a minutes work to switch back to the loft tank. Far more economical to heat 15 ltr to wash hands or dishes now.

Ariston Andris Lux Undersink Water Heater 3kW 15Ltr - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Undersink. Frontal knob for easy temperature regulation. Robust internal 4-bolt flange for increased durability. Steel Tank with Vitreous Enamel Coating. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

thats exactly what we have so +1. They are really good. I’ve one in the house that feeds the kitchen sink and bathroom handbasin.

There’s a smaller one in the workshop for hand washing

Much cheaper than the alternative.

I would have had a combi boiler from choice but as we have no mains gas it wasn’t a option.

When we bought the house it was electric immersion so god only knows how much that cost to run.

Guy who changed my DB reckoned these are all the rage in new builds. He put 5 in one house in the town, apparently.

 

[fizzy]

View attachment 358405

Yes but that is all we have - 8. They only provide 14% of Britain's electricity!

 

[bricol]

EDF supplies a lot. In France their
Electricity has gone up less than 5% Funnily enough the trend with EDF supplied energy here doesn’t follow the same .
Increase in the U.K….. 54% Profiteering here we go again

French government fixed gas prices last October and limited electric price rise to 4%. So at some point, when they will get hit with a pretty big rise!

In the UK - not the same.

If you were selling in two locations, one of which forced you to sell at a loss, and one that didn't - would you sell at the second location at the loss-making price?

 

[daleyd]

France price limits are mainly down to the fact their utility suppliers are state owned, their government is footing the bill. From an article below…

"Somewhere like Germany has looked to scrap surcharges on its electricity bills. France has done something quite different, because it's got a nationalised energy supplier with EDF, it's taken quite a different tack in terms of limiting bill hikes to only 4 per cent. The government is essentially forcing EDF to sell electricity from its nuclear plants at a below market rate to other suppliers. So that's something we can't do in the UK. We got rid of our nationalised energy system a long time ago.”

 

[fizzy]

.. and are no longer under British control so they can pull our pants down at will

Not really there are agreed rates. If Britain had 100% nuclear power we wouldn't be at the mercy of the Saudis or Russia.
The Rolls Royce SMRs will be affordable enough for smaller private companies to run them. Instead of huge quasi state outfits.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

i normaly use our gas boiler to heat the water tank . im thinking it might be cheaper to use the emersion heater as the boiler and pipes have to heat up with the gas every time its calling for heat .the tanks lagged and immersion heater in it with thermostat .. anyone any thoughts on it

Our ~ 10 year old gas boiler is on for about an hour each day and since the heating went off I've been keeping an eye on the gas usage, so for the last two months it's averaged out at 0.57 cubic metres per day. That gives enough hot water for 3 showers and any general washing up etc.

0.57m cubed -----> 6.4 kwh

my current tariff is 3.84p per kwh.

So I am using 24.6p per day of gas, there is no way I could do that cheaper with electricity.

24.6p of electricity would run the 3kw immersion heater for 25minues or so and wouldn't heat a full tank up to temperature.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

I also found this formula on line.

Pt = (4.2 × L × T ) ÷ 3600.

So for my 150l tank, the energy needed to raise the temp by 30 degrees

= (4.2 x 150 x 30)/ 3600

= 5.25kwh

Given my boiler used 6.4kwh, it is running at about ~82% efficiency.

 

[Seadog]

No, it's running at 82% of rated output. If it's a condensing boiler then its maximum efficiency is when it's run flat out.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Efficiency = useful energy out ÷ total energy in

I got 5.25kwh of heat output in the hot water and put in 6.4kwh of gas.

So I the system is 82% efficient, the type of boiler is not relevant in the equation.

 

[willie.macleod]

Efficiency = useful energy out ÷ total energy in

I got 5.25kwh of heat output in the hot water and put in 6.4kwh of gas.

So I the system is 82% efficient, the type of boiler is not relevant in the equation.

In a heating season (maybe not just now!) a good % of the 18% heat might not be wasted though if its an internal boiler, it's heating the internal envelope of the house.

 

[Craig-SM]

France price limits are mainly down to the fact their utility suppliers are state owned, their government is footing the bill. From an article below…

"Somewhere like Germany has looked to scrap surcharges on its electricity bills. France has done something quite different, because it's got a nationalised energy supplier with EDF, it's taken quite a different tack in terms of limiting bill hikes to only 4 per cent. The government is essentially forcing EDF to sell electricity from its nuclear plants at a below market rate to other suppliers. So that's something we can't do in the UK. We got rid of our nationalised energy system a long time ago.”

EDF are having big problems in France. They are hugely in debt to around €60bn, the French government are buying the rest of the share, currently they own around 81%. The nuclear power stations are old and suffering with nearly half down fir maintenance, the cost of which is likely to push the debt over €100bn.

Explainer: Why a French plan to take full control of EDF is no cure-all

The French state will announce details by July 19 about its plan to fully nationalise EDF, the debt-laden utility that runs the nation's nuclear power plants.

www.reuters.com

France outlines plans for buyout of EDF to relaunch country’s nuclear industry

The French government on Tuesday outlined its plans to take full control of EDF, the highly indebted power utility that is to spearhead efforts to relaunch the country's nuclear industry.

www.france24.com

Half of France's nuclear reactors taken offline, adding to electricity demand on European grid

France's problems have raised questions about the UK's big bets on nuclear, which the government calls a "necessity, not a luxury".

news.sky.com

 

[Screwdriver]

Hardly expoitation, BP accept what others are prepared to pay for their products. Couple of years ago nobody wanted petrol/diesel and they made a loss. As for electric companies, depends on what you mean, the ones you pay for your electricity, made a loss last year, which is why many went broke, because the price cap was lower than what they had to pay their suppliers for electricity. The "big six" mostly survived because they generate electricity too, so while the retail side made a paper loss, the generator side mostly made much more profit. Gas generators didn't, as they had to pay more for gas but Nuclear and the renewables costs didn't go up much, so got a windfall. I assume this is what the windfall tax will fall on. The energy market was always flawed. Right from privatisation it was never going to work for the benefit of consumers. Because gas generation costs more, the retailers were willing to pay the renewable generators more. However the renewable generators were getting all sorts of incentives to grow, that is what the "green levy" is for, so consumers end up paying the green levy which producers no longer need, extra standing charges, to upgrade the system, which the green levy was also for, and more for their electricity, part of which is supposed to be going into "investment in infrastructure" so consumers pay three times for the same thing, neat trick.

There is a hidden "trick" to profit and loss accounts - profit does not include the "costs" of running a company.

"Cost" DOES include salaries.

The salaries some of these company executives decide to pay themselves would make a Premiere league footballer blush...