Does anyone actually want to work anymore.

[God mode restorations]

I have got a little job to do this morning ...but realised I got my priorities wrong...got lathe parts to paint....

 

[addjunkie]

Just had a thought, it might have something to do with losing some form of 'tax credit' or other if they earned over a certain amount. Not something I've ever looked into.

This can be an issue in low paid work, my step daughter and her other half are low paid and claim. She is self employed, and wants to work, but each time her earnings change, they make a complete "bottom" of the calculations, and it always seems they owe money back. Therefore she was here the other day in tears with the why do I bother head on. So I have started trying to understand this complex benefit chaos to try and help them

Nah it was different here back in the 80's, it went on a lot, people refusing to work above a certain amount of hours or they got whacked with tax. Then i think the EU ordered a change of rules, tax laws etc.

The 40% tax thing is a mind set, due to a lack of understanding. Years ago I was offshore in the north sea and the deck crew used to refuse OT as they paid 40% tax and its not worth it blah blah. In reality most hands on people would have been over joyed to pay 40% tax because that meant they were earning good money. What happened was the company changed their terms and conditions, regarding OT and rates. The whingers setting a bad attitude, couldnt whinge any more, and gradually departed, some were encouraged. New guys who came in were glad of the job, because the ts and cs were better than elsewhere.

As said earlier a keen and motivated work force deliver, and in my experience the only times I have ever felt like killing time at work or not going has been down to managment. People leave managers not companies.

 

[angellonewolf]

I used to visit a firm who made a certain article (I shouldnt name it)....they were struggling to keep up with orders and needed say 40 a week. They had never made 40 a week so they asked the workforce..."how can we make 40 a week"......the reply was to pay a bonus for every one over their previous record (whatever that was)....the management agreed and and quite soon they were making 40 a week even if the workforce had to work overtime (unpaid)....pretty soon it was evident that 40 a week was becoming easier so they also agreed that the workfoce could finish for the week once they had done 40......some weeks they were doing this in 3 days and always in 4 days.............So the firm got their numbers, the workforce got paid more and everyone had more time off......Thiis is a true story but unfortunately the firm still closed but it was for reasons beyond their control.

This does not always work especially if there is more money to be made I used to help a bloke out window cleaning now and again years ago one day he needed to be some where in the afternoon said once we done 30 houses we are finished we would normally take till 3pm this day finish was 1.15 we went home next day it was back to 3pm

Bloke said how are we normally finishing at 3pm but we can do it at just after 1pm if we work hard (I was going a little faster not much but some so when I finished my rank I would go round the front and help him do a few downstairs Windows and not stoping to chat or take a cup of tea )so the new rule was we do the 30 houses then we finish get the same pay ok was the reply this lasted 2 weeks most times we finished an hour or hour and half earlier then after 2 weeks this was said well on the way home we could do some of the houses out of the way on the way home so we finished at 3pm again and that carried on ever since still the same pay he just got more money for a days pay I never got an extra few quid

 

[Kayos]

Not necessarily. I've seen that behaviour, and it's highly irksome when you have to deal with it. Seems to be a trait more notable in 80's children onwards. Lasses actually seem to have more go in them than the lads, who tend to be a pain in the ****. They seem to want it all without any of the effort. There are obviously good & bad examples though.

Child of the 80’s right here (82)

According to the press I am actually a millennial, however I’m about as far from generation snowflake as you can get

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Child of the 80’s right here (82)

According to the press I am actually a millennial, however I’m about as far from generation snowflake as you can get

Likewise 82.

My old man was a grafter and I worked with him during and after leaving school.
Think parents attitude plays an important role. Its not gonna get better if that's the case.

 

[Kayos]

Likewise 82.

My old man was a grafter and I worked with him during and after leaving school.
Think parents attitude plays an important role. Its not gonna get better if that's the case.

My dad instilled a great work ethic in me, grafted long days and I was brought up thinking that was how you earned money

 

[angellonewolf]

lazy generaly breads lazy

 

[knighty]

I've got decent staff, and do my best to keep them happy, always make sure I'm first one in and last one out. Everyone used to work late but bought some new machines which means they're finishing early a lot of the time now

but even with that it's still a pain in the **** to find decent staff, not so long bak a lad (not the sharpest tool in the shed) quit, I talked to him, he came back the next day... he wasn't really that good but he was a nice lad, would have been alright if he stuck in... lasted another week and quit again... that was a couple of months ago... he's 21... he was seen last week doing his paper round.... :-o

 

[slim_boy_fat]

In my Banking days, I got a phone call from our Area Manager [who clearly thought he was going to give me a bollocking to start the conversation off]. It went thus....

Me: 'Morning, Ian
Him: 'Morning, John. I phoned your Branch yesterday at 5:20 p.m. to talk to you and there was no answer.
Me: That's right, but if you'd phoned at 7:30 a.m. you'd have got me. If everyone here isn't out the door by or on the dot of 5:00 p.m. there's something wrong.
Cue loooong silence.......
Him: Well, anyway.....

 

[Cobbler]

Years ago when I worked for BT, one of the linesman was sat at 8:00 having a cup tea in the exchange. Area manager walks in, asks what he's doing, "having a cup of tea, then sorting my jobs out for the day. "Area manager went mad, wasting company time drinking tea etc etc. Then ring the guys boss & reports him for wasting time. His bosses reply " he doesn't start until 08:30, he's not working yet, he always comes in early to sort his work out & have a cup of tea before he starts" Cue, one very red faced area manager who said "why didn't you say" "you didn't ask" was the reply!

 

[DennisCA]

The 40% tax thing is a mind set, due to a lack of understanding. Years ago I was offshore in the north sea and the deck crew used to refuse OT as they paid 40% tax and its not worth it blah blah. In reality most hands on people would have been over joyed to pay 40% tax because that meant they were earning good money.

It seems to me these people probably didn't understand how tax brackets work and thought if they went over an amount they'd loose money, rather than they'd just be paying 40% on the amount that went over the bracket, so in no way could they actually loose money. I have found this misunderstanding is rife in society.

EDIT: Apparently from some replies the UK had a really strange tax system in the 80s

 

[colnerov]

Hi, The tax break point has real effects at 40%. Before it's 23% income tax + 11% NI, After it's 40% + 11% NI which equals 51%, so he ends up with less than half the money he earns as opposed to the two thirds before.

Colin

 

[TechnicAl]

This does not always work especially if there is more money to be made I used to help a bloke out window cleaning now and again years ago one day he needed to be some where in the afternoon said once we done 30 houses we are finished we would normally take till 3pm this day finish was 1.15 we went home next day it was back to 3pm

Bloke said how are we normally finishing at 3pm but we can do it at just after 1pm if we work hard (I was going a little faster not much but some so when I finished my rank I would go round the front and help him do a few downstairs Windows and not stoping to chat or take a cup of tea )so the new rule was we do the 30 houses then we finish get the same pay ok was the reply this lasted 2 weeks most times we finished an hour or hour and half earlier then after 2 weeks this was said well on the way home we could do some of the houses out of the way on the way home so we finished at 3pm again and that carried on ever since still the same pay he just got more money for a days pay I never got an extra few quid

Should have made an agreement first.........This is typical of the current management methods.....more and more for the same or less........cant wait to see what Sports Direct (less than minmimm pay) do to House of Fraser.....This is why directors average pay rises are in the tens of percents and everyone else gets nothing or next to it.

 

[Aesgarth]

Hi, The tax break point has real

effects at 40%. Before it's 23% income tax + 11% NI, After it's 40% + 11% NI which equals 51%, so he ends up with less than half the money he earns as opposed to the two thirds before.

Colin

That's not how it works...

Earn £46,350 (under the 40% band) in 2018/2019 and you'll take home £34,901. This means £2,908in your pocket a month.
Over the year you'll pay £6,898 income tax and £4,551 in National Insurance.

Earn £46,550 (over the 40% band) in 2018/2019 and you'll take home £35,018. This means £2,918in your pocket a month.
Over the year you'll pay £6,976 income tax and £4,555 in National Insurance.

Only the additional income above the 40% band is taxed at 40% - so in the above case £199 is taxed at 40% as the 40% band starts at £46,351

This will have an impact on your hourly rate, but it doesn't cost you out of your take home pay.

 

[colnerov]

That's not how it works...

Earn £46,350 (under the 40% band) in 2018/2019 and you'll take home £34,901. This means £2,908in your pocket a month.
Over the year you'll pay £6,898 income tax and £4,551 in National Insurance.

Earn £46,550 (over the 40% band) in 2018/2019 and you'll take home £35,018. This means £2,918in your pocket a month.
Over the year you'll pay £6,976 income tax and £4,555 in National Insurance.

Only the additional income above the 40% band is taxed at 40% - so in the above case £199 is taxed at 40% as the 40% band starts at £46,351

This will have an impact on your hourly rate, but it doesn't cost you out of your take home pay.

Hi, Yes and no, my post was based on personal circumstances and so could be misleading. It depends how close the basic pay is to the tax break point. When I was at one place we were within a few pounds of it so any overtime resulted in the 40% rate. One month the over time wasn't paid in the salary cheque and had to be paid a few days later with a corresponding pay slip to show the details, some got quite upset at the amount of tax paid and money received. I realised how it worked and accepted it but some guys didn't and got upset when they found out, I was quite surprised that they couldn't break the wage slips down and know whether it was right or not, I knew within a pound or two what was coming.

Colin

 

[vwmark]

Its a pity vwmark did not tell us exactly what the job is they are doing and how much the wages are. Perhaps the answer is in these details.

For sure people do not want to work in a boring job with poor conditions and low wages.

Unfortunately I cant. Somebody from a forum once worked out were I worked and caused a bit of hassle.

Its basic manual work and very simple machine operation.

Its nothing to do with the company or the work. Its the under 30 generation. Other companirs I know who pay more etc have the same issues - work is something you avoid.

 

[addjunkie]

Hi, Yes and no, my post was based on personal circumstances and so could be misleading. It depends how close the basic pay is to the tax break point. When I was at one place we were within a few pounds of it so any overtime resulted in the 40% rate. One month the over time wasn't paid in the salary cheque and had to be paid a few days later with a corresponding pay slip to show the details, some got quite upset at the amount of tax paid and money received. I realised how it worked and accepted it but some guys didn't and got upset when they found out, I was quite surprised that they couldn't break the wage slips down and know whether it was right or not, I knew within a pound or two what was coming.

Colin

If your paid monthly or weekly its irrelevant, as it goes on your yearly totals, and your code is then adjusted accordingly the followin yesr to balance if you over paid or underpaid, unless its a huge over payment, in which you get a tax rebate.

 

[colnerov]

Hi, A bit of a sweeping generalisation and it's not a one size fits all, but has some insights.

Colin

 

[JohnRUFC]

If your paid monthly or weekly its irrelevant, as it goes on your yearly totals, and your code is then adjusted accordingly the followin yesr to balance if you over paid or underpaid, unless its a huge over payment, in which you get a tax rebate.

I think the issue people have, is that they are paid hourly. Working overtime is putting more of your time in to help the company and in return you’re paid more per hour for doing so. Or at least that’s how I’ve always had it in my contracts. If you earn £20 per hour and pay 23% tax. You’ll take home £15.40 my wages used to be time and a half for anything over my contracted hours. That would make it £30 per hour. If you then hit the 40% bracket. You will take home £18 instead of £23.10 on the overtime that you’ve worked. In real terms you’re being paid £2.60 extra every hour instead of £7.70

Would you work overtime for what is essentially a £5.10 per hour pay cut?

 

[addjunkie]

I think the issue people have, is that they are paid hourly. Working overtime is putting more of your time in to help the company and in return you’re paid more per hour for doing so. Or at least that’s how I’ve always had it in my contracts. If you earn £20 per hour and pay 23% tax. You’ll take home £15.40 my wages used to be time and a half for anything over my contracted hours. That would make it £30 per hour. If you then hit the 40% bracket. You will take home £18 instead of £23.10 on the overtime that you’ve worked. In real terms you’re being paid £2.60 extra every hour instead of £7.70

Would you work overtime for what is essentially a £5.10 per hour pay cut?

Its not a pay cut though, its you are paying more tax as uour a high earner!

Its so long since I was an hourly paid worker I cant even remember what year it was. Salaried in managment offshore I often worked 15 or 16 hours with no extra, because that was what was required to get the job done. Just the way it was! The bonus was ok, but not enough to pay for the extra hours, but not much else to do, except work!