A question for the drillbitists

[Moose McAlpine]

Have you been at my work?

I would laugh, but with the last guys my work employed, that's pretty accurate.

I think it's like that everywhere.

I've worked with guys who claimed to be master techs at dealers, but can't diagnose anything, can't use multimeters, can't read wiring diagrams. Lots of these guys only used to working on one brand, can't figure out how to work on anything else.

The trade is actually full of idiots.

 

[premmington]

I think it's like that everywhere.

I've worked with guys who claimed to be master techs at dealers, but can't diagnose anything, can't use multimeters, can't read wiring diagrams. Lots of these guys only used to working on one brand, can't figure out how to work on anything else.

The trade is actually full of idiots.

I would agree with the statement in bold writting 100%.

The big trade is full of "techs" who really only have product training on one make.

The little trade is full of people who have little or no training at all.

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You can open a independant garage up in this country - just by putting a sign over the door and becoming a "professional". I kid you not!

The "professional bodies" that try and "regulate"the trade are really only money making - IMI.

Apprentice training level 1 to 3 - is worthless in the real world! The new level 4 training - I have jet to see what that has to offer (very little I would guess).

Yeah the motor repair trade is a mess...

 

[Melvyn Best]

Gas fitters and electricians have to have a recognised qualification so why not the motor trade?

 

[hotponyshoes]

Gas fitters and electricians have to have a recognised qualification so why not the motor trade?

Presumably because that would prevent anybody changing their own brake pads on the driveway at a weekend?

I think it needs to be passed in law that only members of a recognised/protected profession may carry out certain activities and then a governing body needs to oversee the registrations etc.

A dealership could set its own requirements for staff but there is nothing to stop me putting up a sign on the workshop and offering motor repairs tomorrow.

Maybe the statistics just don't show much risk to public safety caused by diyers and 'unqualified' mechanics working on cars?

 

[sako243]

Presumably because that would prevent anybody changing their own brake pads on the driveway at a weekend

Having seen a so called expert main dealer's attempt at changing brake pads I'll stick with doing my own.

Colleague in my old office had a phone call from the main dealer who was doing an MOT on his car. We actually got to watch as they had a video camera we could see the problem with. Basically all front brakes were missing the clips that retained the pins in the pads. Of those pins only one of four was still present so pads were not being held in.

He commented the pads were brand new so obviously hadn't done many miles (my mate said well we've done 8 miles since the service which did the pads). Tester asked for the garage name because he felt he should report them for negligence / bad job.

Wasn't very impressed when my mate responded "uh it was you" and proceeded to go beet red. The 8 miles had been from the dealer back home and then a month later back to the same place for the MOT. They walked / cycled to work so only used the car for longer trips to see family.

 

[PhillipM]

I've seen more **** jobs done on cars by dealers with trained staff churning it out to minimum cost and labour than I ever have from people doing their own work.

Are the same people going to demand we have licenses and training for welding at home, grinding at home, using a drill, painting?

Do I have to do a culinary course for 6 months before I'm allowed to use a pan at home?

 

[premmington]

Presumably because that would prevent anybody changing their own brake pads on the driveway at a weekend?

I think it needs to be passed in law that only members of a recognised/protected profession may carry out certain activities and then a governing body needs to oversee the registrations etc.

A dealership could set its own requirements for staff but there is nothing to stop me putting up a sign on the workshop and offering motor repairs tomorrow.

Maybe the statistics just don't show much risk to public safety caused by diyers and 'unqualified' mechanics working on cars?

If you do allot of MOT testing you will soon get to realise the standard of DIY car repairs is not that bad in general.

 

[Trevorleach]

Truck fitters are in demand at the moment.

Every lorry yard near us - have signs outside advertising for vacancies.

£47k - that will be nights I would think? - bet we are talking Mon to Thurs - 4x 10hr nights

Most nights are 20 to 25 per hour, days are not much less 17 to 20

 

[Trevorleach]

Almost certainly, I think most mechanics are underpaid but my recent experience suggests that they do the same job 3 times before fixing it.
Understaffed and underskilled

That is pretty accurate, there is also an issue with employers not willing to pay for training, even if the training is make specific and will save them money, then there is the not fit for purpose for euro6 generic code reader plus lack oft raining and its pot luck with diagnostics, so out comes the parts cannon which for some reason the employers are happy to pay for, the weird thing is they the employers will not be told!

 

[mtt.tr]

That is pretty accurate, there is also an issue with employers not willing to pay for training, even if the training is make specific and will save them money, then there is the not fit for purpose for euro6 generic code reader plus lack oft raining and its pot luck with diagnostics, so out comes the parts cannon which for some reason the employers are happy to pay for, the weird thing is they the employers will not be told!

I see this from both sides, before going employed about 9months ago I was self employed so its natural for me to upskill myself arguably no point in dragging people up.

 

[Trevorleach]

I see this from both sides, before going employed about 9months ago I was self employed so its natural for me to upskill myself arguably no point in dragging people up.

With the cost of parts on trucks wise employers will pay for training
Not unusual to jack a cab and see several thousands worth of parts fitted over the life of the vehicle, get it wrong and it costs

Examples
Truck mil lamp on, bloke does regen mil light wont go out even with diag tool, I get the job, wont start batts u/s/ new batts clear endless list of faults caused by knackered batteries, extended roadtest done, so truck off the road for 24hrs several regens all whilst ignoring the obvious

Non crank bloke fits starter, still no crank, many checks later decides to read codes, immobiliser no comms!

Many many more along the same lines

 

[mtt.tr]

With the cost of parts on trucks wise employers will pay for training
Not unusual to jack a cab and see several thousands worth of parts fitted over the life of the vehicle, get it wrong and it costs

Examples
Truck mil lamp on, bloke does regen mil light wont go out even with diag tool, I get the job, wont start batts u/s/ new batts clear endless list of faults caused by knackered batteries, extended roadtest done, so truck off the road for 24hrs several regens all whilst ignoring the obvious

Non crank bloke fits starter, still no crank, many checks later decides to read codes, immobiliser no comms!

Many many more along the same lines

This is what my new world is highlighting, makes me angrier than it should

 

[Moose McAlpine]

Non crank bloke fits starter, still no crank, many checks later decides to read codes, immobiliser no comms!

If only there was an easy way to test a starter..

 

[mtt.tr]

If only there was an easy way to test a starter..

I've heard of ring gears being replaced when its just the motor isn't engaging

 

[Moose McAlpine]

I've heard of ring gears being replaced when its just the motor isn't engaging

You'd at least know if the engine turned over or just the motor spun. Idiocy knows no bounds.

We have so many cars towed for failed starters because it never occured to the patrol to bump start it..

Went to a Mercedes earlier, we've been out to it 4 times recently for non-start. No-one has previously done a battery test, they just told her to run it for an hour. Battery knackered, alternator putting out 13.4v. We literally have a machine that tests it for you.

 

[premmington]

You'd at least know if the engine turned over or just the motor spun. Idiocy knows no bounds.

We have so many cars towed for failed starters because it never occured to the patrol to bump start it..

Went to a Mercedes earlier, we've been out to it 4 times recently for non-start. No-one has previously done a battery test, they just told her to run it for an hour. Battery knackered, alternator putting out 13.4v. We literally have a machine that tests it for you.

Major recovery service towed one in last week. Customer roadside for 3hrs - then 2hr ride on third party tilt/slide.

No fuel pressure - 5ltr can of petrol resolved this. I kid you not!

Recovery service put it down to "imo problem". Customer stood there as we poured fuel in and the engine started.

"how do these people feed themselves"...?

 

[Trevorleach]

Major recovery service towed one in last week. Customer roadside for 3hrs - then 2hr ride on third party tilt/slide.

No fuel pressure - 5ltr can of petrol resolved this. I kid you not!

Recovery service put it down to "imo problem". Customer stood there as we poured fuel in and the engine started.

"how do these people feed themselves"...?

Surely fuel light must have been on, and what with the lack of fuel at stations the first thing the breakdown guy would be checking would be fuel?
Why didnt the customer say oh my light was on, or I am low on fuel etc?

 

[bricol]

Major recovery service towed one in last week. Customer roadside for 3hrs - then 2hr ride on third party tilt/slide.

No fuel pressure - 5ltr can of petrol resolved this. I kid you not!

Recovery service put it down to "imo problem". Customer stood there as we poured fuel in and the engine started.

"how do these people feed themselves"...?

I daren't say much . . . aged 18, I had to leave my Lancia Beta coupe across my parents front lawn as it wouldn't start . . . after a lot of checking, new plugs, a rebuild of the distributor . . . after a week back at uni, I tipped a gallon of new petrol from one of my dad's Pratts/BP/Shell screw top cans and tried one final time to start it . . .



I'm not sure I've told my mum the real reason why she couldn't get on her lawn that week in 1988 yet . . .

But an adequate supply of fuel is quite near the top of my checklist for failure to start

 

[premmington]

Surely fuel light must have been on, and what with the lack of fuel at stations the first thing the breakdown guy would be checking would be fuel?
Why didnt the customer say oh my light was on, or I am low on fuel etc?

Surely? Why?

I asked myself the same questions?

 

[m_c]

Surely fuel light must have been on, and what with the lack of fuel at stations the first thing the breakdown guy would be checking would be fuel?
Why didnt the customer say oh my light was on, or I am low on fuel etc?

I've had vehicles recovered with suspected lift pump failures, which turned out to be lack of fuel due to the sender units being faulty.

I've also had vehicles recovered in diagnosed with in-tank pump failed. I did ask one recovery guy how can something that's not fitted fail?