911 with crusty sills

  1. Pigeon_Droppings2 Member

    Messages:
    1,882
    Location:
    london
    I may have gone a little OTT with my restoration...but better safe than sorry I think.

    Really depends how strong you think the shell is....basically how much vertical steel box sections etc there are running along the cars length....on mine it was the twisting I was worried about but it has half the roof missing! On my project when I jacked up the front of the car and put it on blocks I think I could actually feel a slight change in the door gaps....only slight but enough that I went all out. Was more work...but I didn't have any issues refitting the doors when I was done!

    https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/project-2-nissan-figaro.74791/page-13
     
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  2. ronan

    ronan Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    8,912
    dublin

    Any structure like a car body, when you start cutting and welding is going to want to move. The lads above are correct, brace everything.
     
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  3. Dcal Member

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    How much do you need to cut out?
    The photos you've posted show a a few corners that could be fixed without bracing.
    If you are going to cut out a full inner and outer sill you will definitely need to brace it.
    Just make sure it's square before bracing, as you can lock in any distortion that might be present now.
    A few photos from further back might help to advise on how bad it is or how much bracing might be required.

    I would start on a simple repair and get it sorted before moving on to the next.
    Take lots of measurement and plenty of photos.
    Don't strip the whole thing, just take enough off to fix the section you are working on. You will then have the other side for reference.
    I try to bag all the bits and pieces and put the date on bag as well as the part they came from.
    It's then easier to cross reference and find the photos of the before, instead of it becoming the "I'm not sure".

    Good luck and be sure to start a build thread.
     
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  4. NedHan79 Member

    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Antrim Ireland
    I’ll try to get some clearer pictures of where I’m at. I’ve taken out the bottom 2 inches of the outer sill(full length) as it wasn’t even connected at the bottom. The rest I have just cleaned up atm.

    The inner sill is crusty 30mm from the lip and broken away in a lot of places and the floor side maybe 20mm but the lip is completely rotten. I have cleaned both back to good metal.

    I work in a small engineering shop( mostly fancy gates and heavier fabrication) and have access to presses and the likes.
    I was thinking of pressing a lip into one piece and fitting it to the inner sill and floor instead of a piece on each and joining them. Obviously the outer sill would need another separate piece made. I have made cardboard templates for the front and I’m happy to start cutting.i think.lol
    The pieces of tape are just for my own reference but I’ve since cleaned it back to bare metal. The black is the inner sill btw
     
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  5. Pigeon_Droppings2 Member

    Messages:
    1,882
    Location:
    london
    I did the outer sill on my MR2 without bracing....but that car is immensely strong....the central turret houses the fuel tank and it's 12 inches deep or something mad!

    I think outer sill you "might" be OK...but if you are taking the lip out then you'll be cutting out a lot of the rigidity. The other thing worth considering is putting the car on equal blocks all the way around so it's sitting the way it would normally when you do the work.
     
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  6. CompoSimmonite Member

    Messages:
    4,181
    Location:
    Werrington, Stoke-on-Trent
    If the car is a cheap banger that you just need to patch up for another years use before scrapping then use homemade patch panels. However if the car is worth more than 99p and a keeper or you ever might want to sell then use proper FULL sills otherwise patching will seriously devalue the car. A Porsche is an expensive car to buy and that comes with expensive repair costs. If you try to run or repair one a shoestring then it might be worth considering parking it up until you have saved enough funds to do the job properly. Quite look on Google shows full sills are available and fitting such would ensure it remains safe and keeps it's value.
     
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  7. Dcal Member

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    I would not be so quick to order new panels.
    The sills are part of the quarter panel (I think) so should you replace the whole quarter panel as well?
    I'd be more inclined to cut out and replace the rotten bits, but do it properly.
    Replacing more steel than necessary isn't going to add any value. Fixing it properly will.
    Now if you need to cut more out to get access or it's easier to replace a full panel fair enough but replacing good steel for the sake of it just seem wrong.
    Once it's gone it's gone and there is no getting it back.
    If you do a part repair there is always the option (hopefully in 20 years time) to have another go.

    I do think it needs to be done really well though but that's the same in any car.
    A cheap runaround fixed up by a 18 year old is probably going to have a harder life than a pampered 911.
    How often do you see them driven hard?
    It's only a car at the end of the day no need to make it mythical.

    It's going to be better post repair unless it's already bent and the repair doesn't deal with it.
    No point in turning this into another paperweight while the OP worries about what to do.

    Get it fixed and drive it.
     
  8. Pigeon_Droppings2 Member

    Messages:
    1,882
    Location:
    london
    Trigger's broom springs to mind!

    I also think preserve the originality you have...pulling off a rear quarter and refitting it you'll never get it back to the factory look and to me seeing those spot welds disturbed would be more alarming than seeing a few repairs in "known problem areas" that have been well done!

     
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  9. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    Having restored a few 911’s there is going to be rust else where on that chassis
     
  10. NedHan79 Member

    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Antrim Ireland
    Thanks for all the input. As said above, the new sills are porsche only and are in 2 bits, the rear piece being part of the quarter panel.

    This is not a restoration but it does need to be a good job. The rest of the floor is good apart from a few tiny spots where the sealer has been broken so possibly a small repair or 2 needed but very minor. Paint is scaly on the front suspension turrets but nothing more than a rub back and paint and a sealer.

    Rear quarters are good. Will need the lip done to hold the bumper but on the whole they are good.

    Yes this is running into more work than I expected but nothing I’m afraid of.

    I’m always open to opinions and experienced views. They can’t do any harm
     
  11. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    Always look at 50p size and expect it to 8 times as big

    Iv given up saying it will take a day to weld as it ALWAYS takes longer
     
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  12. NedHan79 Member

    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Antrim Ireland
    Hi stuvy. I’m under no illusions and in no hurry. It’ll get what it needs.

    I’d be interested to know more about the 911 restorations.
    We’re they all air cooled?
     
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  13. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    Iv done 911’s in both air and water

    What year is yours I have a pair of front wings from a pre 73 911 on eBay as we speak

    Iv also got a fibreglass front bumper for an RSR I think
     
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  14. Ruffian Member

    Messages:
    1,670
    Location:
    Devon UK
    He has said it's a 996 so would be 2000-onwards kinda age.
    Cant remember the exact times they changed but more modern water cooled.

    I personally will be speaking to Porsche as the sills will be available as a repair panel for accident damaged cars. Yes they will be rough cut but wont need the full 1/4 replacing.
     
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  15. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    I didn’t re read the initial post
     
  16. NedHan79 Member

    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Antrim Ireland
    It’s an early 3.4. 1998 Carrera 2 with the factory aero kit.

    I have spoken to porsche and the rear of the sill is part of the quarter panel. I’m quite happy to have a go at making all of this.
    My only draw back atm is I’m trying to buy a new mig. Never had one of my own so it’ll definitely come in handy.
     
  17. NedHan79 Member

    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Antrim Ireland
    How bad were the water cooled cars?
     
  18. Dcal Member

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    Talk to Weldpro - Thermal Arc, Esab, Cebora and see what they have also Welders Choice they do GYS, Miller, and Parweld and are very helpful.
    Jg Burnes in Newtownabbey do Lincoln and used to be an agent for RTEC also Fyfes do Jasic and sip and the other crap but have good offers at times.
    If your really flush (and you do own a 911) Alaster Moore in Mallusks do all the nice stuff like Kempi, Fronius and Lorch.

    They are all within 10miles of Belfast so spoiled for choice but make sure you get one suitable for bodywork.
     
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  19. NedHan79 Member

    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Antrim Ireland
    Cheers for that. Atm I’m on for an sip inverter mig. Boss has one at home he was going to lend me but Ive decided to splash out in my own. He reckons for “home use” it’s as good as they come. I suppose I’m spoilt using the 3 phase migs at work.
    Was talking to a sales rep for Mcintyre’s today but he was showing me a Jefferson one but it was a bit pricey.

    And yes, I really do own a 911.
    Most of one anyway
     
  20. Dcal Member

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    There is better than the Sip for the same or less money.
    Worth asking on here and doing a bit of research before splashing the cash.
     
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