2K Safety - Leason learnt

  1. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    :o. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Location:
    Towcester
    Yep, a hole drilled in the second de of a respirator
     
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  3. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,820
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland

    Thanks @Parm

    This is good information and just what a thread like this needs, however we should recognise that this is a DIY forum and if it is all made to look too difficult some people might be inclined to "just have a go" with potentially serious consequences.

    I think if it was shown how simple it is to carry our a risk assessment for a potentially hazardous product it could lead to a better understanding of the risks and hazards and more importantly if they can be reduced to a reasonable level or alternatively if the use of a particular product by a particular individual in their location cannot be safe. (for example someone with asthma, painting inside, with 2k, with no PPE, with limited ventilation and blowing the overspray into a primary school yard full of kids)
    Don't care what PPE they get it's just not going to be worth it.

    I am the first to admit that in answering questions on here I have concentrate more on the TDS side of thinks and less on the MSDS but to be fair most / all TDS also cover PPE requirements (although not in anywhere enough detail) and I do read and act on them for my own situation.

    I am happy to share my experience but I would think it is not typical so not really that applicable (limited use, detached workshop 20m from main dwelling, no close neighbors, access to clean air and PPE, extraction vented away from the work place and compressor intake, no relevant medical issues etc.)
    I'm certain I could do more but for the amount of painting I do it seems reasonable to me. Some might say it's overkill but it's my lungs and I vary the PPE I use depending on what I'm doing.

    A walk through the process and the answering of any questions raised could only be a good exercise and would certainly add to the available information.

    If after that someone doesn't understand the risks and the necessary controls they shouldn't even consider using the product no matter how supposedly safe in is.

    I'm not referring to people in this forum and certainly not to those that ask first, but I know some people who would need to be told not drink the paint! (well maybe not the paint, but certainly the thinners)
     
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  4. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

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    1,043
    Location:
    Finland
    So the short of it is, if you wanna work with 2K spray paints, and I guess rolling or brushing too, you gotta have a fresh air mask?

    And the mask has to get the air from some remote source, not good enough to have one of those respirators hooked on your belt I guess, as it will just suck in the same contaminated air.
     
  5. It is the spray mist that constitutes the danger. For rolling or brushing, it's OK with conventional PPE.
     
  6. Keith 66 Member

    Messages:
    1,734
    Essex UK
    In my trade as a boatbuilder i used many gallons of west & Sp systems epoxy, both almost identical formulations with bisphenol A base resin & hardeners that may contain amines & polyamides depending on which hardener you are using.
    A lot of people think epoxies are safe because they dont smell as much as more volatile polyesters, vinylesters or other 2k paints. But its well known in the boat trade that epoxies can be a potent sensitizer. Most hardeners are ammonia based & we all know how nasty that stuff is. Most guys get away with things for years then get a nasty surprise. My first such lesson was when a dripping hardener pump dropped a dollop of west hardener on my webbing watch strap. I didnt notice for an hour but then it started to burn. I realised what had happened & scrubbed the watch strap with acetone & let it dry The chemical burn on my wrist healed up after a few days so i put the watch back on. The burn came back within minutes. It took weeks to heal. I ended up throwing the watch strap away. For some years later every time i got epoxy anywhere near that wrist the burn would literally come back. Sod that in your lungs.
    Look on the wooden boat forum & search for epoxy sensitisation, plenty of fine examples there.
    One thing that people forget is that once you have used the epoxy resin or paint its dust may still be a sensitizer for some time after initial setting before it finally cures.
     
  7. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

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    Location:
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    I was replying to this on my phone when I saw Kieth66 reply and I fully agree with it.

    It's all a danger.

    I assume we don't need to tell folks not to drink it or not to use the hardener as a solvent etc, but I agree the spraying turns it into a different animal with a huge increase in exposure because it is turned into an aerosol. Something a spray gun does supremely well. (Some better than others)

    If you are rolling or brushing, the exposure level is much lower but not completey absent.
    The risks are the same, the exposure much less, so a proper well fitted mask suitable for 2k (they are available and linked to in this thread) would in my opinion be OK.
    If you can smell paint it's not working so get out of the shop and check your kit. The most likely reason is your mask doesn't fit you.

    If you have good ventilation, the correct ppe, don't do it often or for long periods I would consider it a low risk activity.
    However you need to do your own risk assessment.
    Consider the materials you are proposing to use, consider your own health status (eg are you asthmatic, have you become sensitised through previous exposure) and remember you should also comply with the rules in your own jurisdiction.
    And of course don't forget to wear gloves and and glasses and cover skin to prevent splashes.
     
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  8. Edward Yemm Member

    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England
    I’ve used 2K only ever for lacquer. I use the following technique:
    Hold breath
    Spray
    Run away.
     
  9. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

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    1,820
    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    This might be why you are not getting the finish you want on your BMW :scared:
     
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  10. Edward Yemm Member

    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England
    Ha ha! The 2k lays on like an absolute dream even if I am running the air pressure far too low. It’s only the base I have issue with. The clear as fantastic as it is don’t hide the bad base. The 1K RFU clear would probably go on a lot smoother with the air pressure whacked up.
     
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