2K Safety - Leason learnt

  1. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    ^^^^^^ Don’t follow that advice if you value your health
     
  2. What advice? I clearly said that I wouldn't be telling anyone else to do as I do. The non mandatory air fed for epoxy primer is fact, not my opinion too. That being said, the whole hysteria around non isocyanate paints, especially when brushed is just typical of the elves trying to stop anyone from achieving anything. I'm just glad that they weren't around in the last few centuries because the Industrial Revolution would have passed us by and we would still be wrapped in cotton wool.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  3. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    If you knew even the first thing about what you are talking about you’d be useful, but you don’t. Don’t give advice on topics you know nothing about.

    Truck doctor asked a question and you’ve chimed in with your stupid axe to grind rubbish as usual

    This thing called progress has happened and you don’t seem to understand that

    Anyway, I won’t have anything more to do with you as clearly you have a very damaged perception of things. I have blocked you as you are beginning to get on my wick
     
    mtt.tr, bigegg, Bullet2012 and 2 others like this.
  4. The usual attitude then? Don't want to hear any dissent from the plebs who should just do what nanny says without question? I like to hear all sides of an intelligent debate but clearly you feel that you don't because you always know what's best for us.
     
  5. skotl

    skotl Forum Supporter

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    To be fair, on this topic, he probably does know what's best for us given that this is his job.
     
  6. Well that is a point of view, but for me it comes back to "reasonable and proportionate". The elves seem to want to stop anyone painting anything, with their version of 'project fear'. On the elves website they make the (in my opinion) preposterous claim that some water base paints contain isocyanates. Now it is possible that it is me who is wrong of course, but they have still not revised that claim, nor have any of the elves asked provided a single example of an isocyanate water base paint.
     
  7. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Intelligent debate is a wonderful thing, one that I warmly welcome. Perhaps you should show us how intelligent you are by offering an informed opinion instead of just mouthing off via your keyboard

    Maybe you can begin by highlighting where where it says that air fed is non mandatory? Infact highlight anything where it is says things are non mandatory??

    For your information the H&S system in the U.K. is goal setting, you probably know this but I’ll tell you anyway.

    It requires folk to plan, consider and think about things then arrive at a solution to control and manage things. This is called risk assessment.

    Sometimes these are done well others not. When they go wrong this is when people like you have a problem cause they think they know, when clearly they don’t

    There is nowhere that says things are not mandatory, you have to go through the process to select or not the best most appropriate controls for the situation in hand, a good example of reasonable and proportionate??

    Recently you eluded to a fitter injuring himself from a ladder and a compensation payout. Your website says you do aerial and satellite instaltions and you state he had a “trade rated ladder”

    I wonder what your understanding of the work at height regulations are ? Perhaps You educated the insurance company on how things happened before the industrial revolution ?

    Carry on using epoxy paints that are a significant cause of skin sensitisation and isocyanates which are highly potent respiratory sensitisers. I rather you did it safely but at the end of the day it’s up to you

    But please don’t give advice on matters you know nothing about to folk who are making enquired to stay safe and protect themselves

    Give you an example, despite this being a welding forum I know nothing about welding, so guess what I never get involved when folk make welding related entries
     
    skotl likes this.
  8. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Furthermore a polite request to refrain from using the term “elves” I find this derogatory and offence
     
    WorkshopChris likes this.
  9. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Absolutely you are wrong. Some water based 2k paints can and do contain isocyanates. Isocyanates are what make them 2k cause it’s the chemical reaction that initiated the drying process. Water is a substitute to lower the the VOC content of the paint formulation

    You are doing an excellent job to demonstrate how little you know about such matter. It would appear you can’t even read and assimilate information from a website, maybe your getting confused by the industrial revolution
     
  10. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    Sadly, I can see where this is heading. :(
     
    skotl and Parm like this.
  11. brightspark

    brightspark Member

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    and after all these posts nothings sunk in :laughing:it must be a record for posts
     
    Parm likes this.
  12. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Perhaps, But my axe to grind is I’ll informed advice from incompetent persons. Far too often I’ve seen what happens when things go wrong and pieces have to be picked up
     
  13. truckdoctor

    truckdoctor Member

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    PM sent, or trying to.
    Started a "conversation" not sure if this is a "pm" though.
     
    Parm likes this.
  14. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    Yes
     
  15. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    L
    Revived, will reply in the morning
     
  16. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Apologies for the interruption in proceedings today.

    I had important things to do like drive from Devon to London

    Nice smooth run with the car on cruise at 65
     
  17. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

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    @Parm Why are you putting this off line?
    How does this add to the knowledge available on the forum?

    Could I suggest @truckdoctor posts the data sheets on here and you reply on the open forum, that way we might all learn something.

    I accept each case and product needs to be considered, so it's not a catch all, but why not give a masterclass on best practice for the proposed products?
     
  18. MetalMonkey Member

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    You can get standard (negative pressure) masks/filters that are rated for Isocyanate - but only suitable for occasional use rather than occupational which requires an air-fed.
    The biggest issue with 2K paint, IMO, is there really isn't a viable alternative. Non-Iso and low VOC water based refinishing are, to put it bluntly, garbage.
    That was certainly the case last time I used them and the quality of finishes on new vehicles are shocking.
    Hopefully in time paint technology may improve to a point where there would be no incentive to use them at all - but until it does the benefits justify the risks for a quality refinish job.

    I suspect that any form of protection is going to be better than none - and I'm certainly more cautious using 2K these days.
    However, the irony isn't lost on me when you see the old boys who come out of the booth for a break, remove the mask and light up a cig....
     
  19. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    Don’t know about masterclass but happy to share what I know.

    From previous experience it’s always got complicated when things are on open forum.

    There are three broad groups of substances that folk of the forum often use, these are dicloromethane (paint stripper, highly effective and very good but quickly fatal in the wrong hands / circumstances, usually causes harm very quickly. epoxy based paints (again very good at what they do but precautions required as they are potent skin sensitisers and implicated in occupational asthma. Any isocyanate containing paints (again very good products but also highly potent respiratory sensitisers that cause occupational asthma)

    DCM isn’t a chronic hazard, that’s to say it’s effect is usually quick and often fatal

    With the two paints, there is no smell or taste or any other tell tale indicators that exposure is occurring. It’s best to think any disease caused is invisible. By the time you start exhibiting any symptoms it’s usually too late as the damage is irreversible. There is no cure.


    A little tale.

    Few years ago I was asked to look at Europe’s largest accident repair workshop, it’s in Scotland. A young lad of 18 was training to be a paint sprayer, occupational health surveillance picked up he had work related asthma, so an investigation ensued where I was involved. Company were top notch and going above and beyond what was required, no problems identified.

    So I expanded the investigation and took a more wider look at the lad and considered interests and hobbies outside work. Turns out that from about the age of 16 he was being guided by his uncle in learning stuff about cars, nothing out of the ordinary here. However the uncle had a poor attitude about doing things correctly and just told the lad to crack on, which he did, without the correct precautions in a home workshop. I inspected the workshop, typical garage at the back of a house in a medium sized estate. No control measures.

    The young lad has severe occupational asthma as a result of being exposed to 2K paints at home. At the time his prognosis was that he will probably never work. A very tragic situation that could have so easily been prevented.

    Any reputable paint supplier will always (should always) advise that 2k paints are for professional use only, this implies that correct control measures should be employed .

    It drives me nuts when people give incorrect advice with little knowledge. It’s not fun having to speak to folk that have been hurt.
     
    mtt.tr, Dcal and slim_boy_fat like this.
  20. Parm

    Parm We Will Do Whatever It Takes

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    I can’t say anything about paint performance, there will be folk out there who do this for a living that’ll run rings around me on ins and outs of paint technology

    It’s well known that if you work with asbestos and smoke you are at an exponentially greater risk of developing lung cancer. In 25 years of work I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of asbestos strippers that don’t smoke. Even seen some quite novel solutions to have a fag while wearing the respirator
     
    monky harris, Cyberprog and Dcal like this.
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