2K Safety - Leason learnt

  1. shoreangler Member

    Messages:
    18
    Edinburgh
    I was doing a small paint job a couple of weeks ago in the shed i've got two extracter fans one large one small so on i went with the job mask on a 3M thought that will do the job and it did for the face. the bad mistake was not understanding the paint as i have always used 2K. It wasnt till i woke up in hospital that i was told that I had to be brought back to life as my lungs had shut down and didnt know that it contains isocyante or something like that so it's celluloss from now on.
     
  2. oilcooled :)

    oilcooled :) Pipe Welder, Mechanical engineer

    Messages:
    845
    Location:
    Ireland
    ur lucky to be alive shoreangler, lucky someone came to you when u passed out
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2009
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  3. scarecrow

    scarecrow Outstanding in his field

    Messages:
    1,622
    Ireland
    the sounds like dangerous stuff good to hear that you are all right
    for anybody thinking of spraying with that kind of paint have a read through this
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2009
  4. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,350
    Location:
    Hull UK
    mask on what sort of mask the dust type things ?
    if so you were asking for it idealy you want an air fed (filtered air) or a carbon filter mask
     
  5. shoreangler Member

    Messages:
    18
    Edinburgh
    Hi Snooper.
    The Mask was not air fed but it was carbon filtered cost around £30 but I was told that the mask was not what caused the problem, That chemical that is in the 2K seemingly can get through the eyes and the pours in your skin very quickly so idealy i should have had a full suit with the air fed system, but like i said leason learnt mate.
     
  6. BillJ Member

    Messages:
    645
    Devon
    The filters always carry a warning that they are not capable of filtering out isocyanates. So no, it didn't even do the job for the face.

    You always use 2K and you've never had problems before? And you were never aware that it contains isocyanates and that these require special protection?

    You don't "ideally" need an air-fed mask - you "must" have an air-fed mask unless you're spraying outdoors and can guarantee you won't be breathing in the paint nor coming into skin contact with it.

    Glad you survived and have learnt the lesson. I hope there is no lasting damage but I fear there will be.
     
  7. shoreangler Member

    Messages:
    18
    Edinburgh
    Your right Bill I have used it for years with no effect I should have paid more attention and have been told now that i will be an asthmatic, I guess I have paid the price for stupidity, but I hope that this will let others know the effects that can happen when not doing things by the book,and find things out by checking up first not after when the damage is done,like this idiot sitting here typing this.
     
  8. tux Member

    Messages:
    356
    Nottingham UK
    Sounds like a very lucky escape. Glad you came through it relatively unscathed.

    Reckon this thread should be a sticky to warn others of the dangers so we can all learn from it.
     
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  9. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
    9,026
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    I've very sorry to hear about your troubles. Stay well clear of anything containing isocyanates in the future - once you are sensitised they will trigger asthma attacks.

    I will sticky the thread if it's OK. It's a good warning against using those 2K carbon filter masks. The guy in the case study in Scarecrow's link (3rd post) used them too, and wasn't so lucky.

    Paint shops will willingly sell 2K paint to home users, and my paint shop tried to sell me the carbon filter face mask. I do spray 2K but only with the air fed full face mask (lovely and cool in the summer) and disposable paint suit. I was lucky enough to ask on here and read up before painting, but the information is not so widely offered as the paint itself. Even then I don't like the stuff.
     
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  10. shoreangler Member

    Messages:
    18
    Edinburgh
    I can only pray that people take note of this, I know that i was very lucky but please people dont make the same mistake i did your playing with your life, leave the 2k to the professionals with the proper equipment.
    Thanks to all who read this thread and pay attention to it.
     
  11. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,350
    Location:
    Hull UK
    just found this on wikipedia

    The reactivity of isocyanates makes them harmful to living tissue. They are toxic and exposure is known to result in hypersensitivity pneumonitis as well as occupational asthma in humans, both through inhalation exposure and dermal contact. Exposure to isocyanates and their vapors should be avoided. For the safe handling of isocyanates, information is available from ISOPA[4], the European Diisocyanate and Polyol Producers Association.
     
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  12. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,350
    Location:
    Hull UK
    i too like shoreangler was not aware that isocyanates could pass through the carbon filter masks and be absorbed through the skin / eyes i always wore the mask just like other proffesionals i know, the facts about isocyanates are simply not common knowledge even among painters, i now have an air fed mask dont have any signs of asthma as yet hope it stays that way
     
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  13. dunsdale Member

    Messages:
    49
    Scotland



    I am afraid that you have been misinformed the eyes and skin are not an entry point for isocyanate, this appears to be a popular misconception.

    Getting mixed 2-pack isocyanate paint or liquid hardener drips/splashes on the hands/skin can cause dermatitis .

    Have a look at this link and it is on the health and safety excutive web site so i dare say they know there stuff.



    Direct link paint absorbtion through skin

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/myths/myth9.htm



    And below is the main page with the top ten bodyshop myths

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/myths/index.htm






    .
     
  14. Chipper Member

    Messages:
    1,550
    Location:
    UK
    Just to add: the mask fit is all-important. I have 3M masks that I use with 2k with no problems at all, but have another that has a slight mis-fit. Result, paint gets in. Reckon when breathing in (probably a bit harder than normal too, concentrating etc) the outside will find the easiest route inside i.e. the leak/s.

    Spotted this after doing close-ups, the bounce-back left paint marks on my face inside of where the mask is.
    This mask is also 3M and more expensive than the others that do fit.

    I would say see that a new type of mask fits before using it on a longer session - regardless of 2k or other paint types. Test spray with a new type of mask, with something as harmless as poss - water based maybe?

    A chap on another forum has just had a session in hospital. His first time spraying and his mask did not fit - tell-tales on the face as per above. He used acid etch and synth enamel (no 2k), and passed out after feeling unwell for the 2-3 days.
     
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  15. Steven E Member

    Messages:
    37
    Essex, England
    Dunsdale,

    The HSE site says that the people who think that a significant or even the main route of entry is through the skin with the skin around the eyes being a particular concern have got it wrong. It DOESN'T say that the skin and eyes are not a route of entry, just that inhalation provides the overwhelming route of entry for isocyanate paint mist.
     
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  16. catchawave Member

    Messages:
    23
    Plymouth
    2k warning

    Hi guys,

    I am just started spraying 2k and have got my air fed mask and it has also cost me another compressor but listening to Shoreanglers comments and others it may have been worth it in the long term.

    I have sprayed cellulose before and have not been happy with it but so far (only primer stage) the results are a lot better with 2 pack.

    Andy.

    ps, thats if I can get my JGA gun working from fleabay....bah...see my other posts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  17. shoreangler Member

    Messages:
    18
    Edinburgh
    Just take care mate, regardless of where or how the paint gets in the effects can be fatal Thats one thing i do know I am now on inhalers.
     
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  18. danelectro

    danelectro Member

    Messages:
    402
    Norfolk
    Hey Andy, I've just seen your JGA latest!! Hope it works out ok, but should you need some pics shout!

    As for the 2K, the stuff is lethal, just be sure you have NOT ONLY the right gear, air fed, extraction blah blah, but also that your "breathing" compressor is well out of the way, and you've got it well filtered.

    If you do everything right, you'll enjoy the results from 2K, they really are so much better, with care you'll get a gun finish with relative ease.

    Just always remember, 2K should be regarded as LETHAL from the time you take that lid off the tin, treat it with the utmost respect, and be sure no one in the locale will get a lung full of it.

    I suffer as a result of the stuff, but not as bad as Shoreangler, it's not nice at all.

    And as the old saying goes..."IF IN DOUBT, DON'T"
     
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  19. catchawave Member

    Messages:
    23
    Plymouth
    Hi guys,
    Thanks for the offer of pics, I too hope I see the gun again.....

    As for 2k, yeh I have read a lot on here about it and am taking things steady. Got the gear now and will only be occasional so hopefully I should be OK. Its still a heavy warning reading some of this stuff.

    Thanks to all.
    Andy
     
  20. Omniata

    Omniata Ham Radio Operator, IT Engineer, Welder, Arborist.

    Messages:
    3,188
    Location:
    Poynton, Cheshire, UK, [DOP]
    I worked for 6 years in the polyurethane industry and some of the things I saw done were horrible...

    Needless to say my predecessor at a previous company ended up with isocyanate asthma and now is no longer allowed to work with the stuff, and furthermore can't...

    We produced paints and coatings for childrens playgrounds, the glue to glue together rubber granules ;)


    Basically, you only get one set of lungs, look after them ;)
    I smoke, that's my call and it'll catch up with me eventually, this stuff can get you pretty rapidily, if not properly handled, and then you can't work with it anymore, etc, etc...


    Take care and keep us all updated :D
     
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