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SmartWerks
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No, it's just they have the choice now and they like to employ from there own class and can pick and choose even if that choice isn't the brightest star, a degree just shows you often have a more "stable/desireable" background for want of a better description and you are capable of learning and a level of commitment and you chose to do it and someone else was willing to put there money up so you are more obligated. Uni isn't just about teaching you work based knowledge but how certain parts of society, them with the clout expect you to think and behave. It's called class cleansing, conform or you are going nowhere hence I am now taking the self employed route.
" I thought I fought the world, turns out the world fought me"
Pete.
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for a hands on job, mechanical engineering related; someone with a level 3 NVQ and 3&½ years experience (from an apprenticeship) or someone with A-levels and degree in Mech' Eng' but no experience?
We were talking about what I want to do when I leave school;
I'd rather get an apprenticeship and get hands on experience, a decent qual' by the end of it, get paid throughout and have the option to go on to uni should I want to. I think this would make me more employable and I could have a real job, doing what I like by the time I'm 19 but I would all ready have 4 years of experience (and money) under my belt so I'd be used to working long hours and not getting much time off.
Everyone else in the conversation (mum, aunt, nan and grandad) all think I should do A levels then uni which would leave me with a better qual' but NO work experience, finally getting a job when I'm 21 and with a big student loan hanging over me. Grandad thinks this person would be more employable, even though he said it himself once that "qualifications only get you your first job, experience gets you the rest"
Also, I want to be actually making stuff, not sitting at a computer, telling a CNC machine what to do or sitting in an office, telling others what to do. I couldn't care less that they may be better paying, they sound boring. I think the uni degree would get me a job doing either of these.
I want to work in a small business, making one offs, not a bigger business, making hundreds of the same part, day in, day out.
What do you think would be best for me?
I think that aptitude and willingness are strong traits to exhibit for this type of work. From what I've seen you seem to have these in abundance, and any worthwhile employer would spot this right away.
premmington
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Very interesting post this one!
I have read and re-read the posts.
All I have to say on the subject is!
Everybody without exception who works for me, is better educated than I am!
All my three children have degrees, daughter is an accountant, son is a Met Policeman and youngest daughter is a housewife and is luck enough her husband has a good job!
There is another route, plain old enterprise, determination and hard work!
I have read and re-read the posts.
All I have to say on the subject is!
Everybody without exception who works for me, is better educated than I am!
All my three children have degrees, daughter is an accountant, son is a Met Policeman and youngest daughter is a housewife and is luck enough her husband has a good job!
There is another route, plain old enterprise, determination and hard work!
shedfull
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Maker,
Are you sure you will pass your GCSE and A levels? Engineering degrees will require a good maths / physics understanding.
If you are $4*t hot on the maths and physics (without kidding your self) then go for the Degree but I know a few Graduates at my work who did engineering / design and are now selling stuff.
You said in your opening post you want to work in a small firm, hands on, making stuff
But this is not 1956 some small firms see training and apprenticeships as a cost and slowing them down.
(is there a firm locally that you can think of where you could go to?)
I don't want to pi$$ on your parade but I'd be looking at the bigger employers with links to local schools / colleges and a training budget
a bigger company may also sponsor you further.
In fact get into your school and see if you can go to the local college to get some hands on if you are not already metal bashing at school.
Uhhm hope this helps, I've been back to college 3 times, really wished I did an apprenticeship, bit long in the tooth now.
To sum up; get the best grades you can, find the best training with a good firm, Immerse your self in that training so you know your stuff front ways, backwards and any other way.
Make some nice stuff now that you can carry to show off ( fancy key fob, turners cube etc etc)
I'm rambling now, time for my pills.
Are you sure you will pass your GCSE and A levels? Engineering degrees will require a good maths / physics understanding.
If you are $4*t hot on the maths and physics (without kidding your self
) then go for the Degree but I know a few Graduates at my work who did engineering / design and are now selling stuff.You said in your opening post you want to work in a small firm, hands on, making stuff
But this is not 1956 some small firms see training and apprenticeships as a cost and slowing them down.
(is there a firm locally that you can think of where you could go to?)
I don't want to pi$$ on your parade but I'd be looking at the bigger employers with links to local schools / colleges and a training budget
a bigger company may also sponsor you further.In fact get into your school and see if you can go to the local college to get some hands on if you are not already metal bashing at school.
Uhhm hope this helps, I've been back to college 3 times, really wished I did an apprenticeship, bit long in the tooth now.
To sum up; get the best grades you can, find the best training with a good firm, Immerse your self in that training so you know your stuff front ways, backwards and any other way.
Make some nice stuff now that you can carry to show off ( fancy key fob, turners cube etc etc)
I'm rambling now, time for my pills.
Maker
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I can definitely pass maths & physics but it's not looking likely that I'm gonna pass english - I got A, B, U and U for maths, physics, English language and English lit, respectively in my mocks. Yeah, the English is gonna seriously hinder me but I have now been moved into a lower set (with IMO, a better teacher) and will now be sitting the lower paper so I'm more likely to get a better grade in my summer exams.
I don't want to start ranting but I really don't think it's fair to judge my English skill with questions like:
"Compare the ways in which the poets shows feelings and emotions between themselves and another person in "On a portrait of a deaf man" and a poem of your choice"
If it were my way, there would be two tests; one basic one that tests whether you can write coherent letters, use correct syntax, spelling and punctuation that kind of thing and another that tests whether you can evaluate writers deepest feelings. The former being required for all but the simplest jobs and the latter only being required for very English related jobs, E.g; teacher.
I like the idea of making some things to show off (I'm assuming you mean in an interview?).
I don't want to start ranting but I really don't think it's fair to judge my English skill with questions like:
"Compare the ways in which the poets shows feelings and emotions between themselves and another person in "On a portrait of a deaf man" and a poem of your choice"
If it were my way, there would be two tests; one basic one that tests whether you can write coherent letters, use correct syntax, spelling and punctuation that kind of thing and another that tests whether you can evaluate writers deepest feelings. The former being required for all but the simplest jobs and the latter only being required for very English related jobs, E.g; teacher.
I like the idea of making some things to show off (I'm assuming you mean in an interview?).
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The one with the biggest t*ts
Apprenticeships have changed a lot since I did mine, we had a year "off the job" training where I got broad based practical skills & theory then specialised in years 2-4. Where I work now, the apprentices spend the first year entirely in the classroom and gain no practical skills, I had to show one lad how to use a hacksaw correctly!
Maker
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AFAIK, the ones I'm applying for are 3&½ years long and you have to get a job yourself and spend 4 days a week with your employer and one day a week at college.The one with the biggest t*ts
Apprenticeships have changed a lot since I did mine, we had a year "off the job" training where I got broad based practical skills & theory then specialised in years 2-4. Where I work now, the apprentices spend the first year entirely in the classroom and gain no practical skills, I had to show one lad how to use a hacksaw correctly!
Wendelspanswick
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My son is in his second year as an apprentice welder/fabricator with a small local firm and loves it. He does one day a week at the local college.
bigegg
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I *hated* english lit when I was at school - see if you can drop it to concentrate on the EngLang instead.
From what I've seen of your posts on here, you're more literate than 85% of the internet!
Open uni doesn't need amy entry qualifications, and a year one course will get you in to most mid-tier universities.
My daughter left school at 16, after missing 2 years, with a d in maths, and an F in English.
She skipped retakes + A levels (at my behest) and has just graduated with a "first" in Psychology At 21!
Maker
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I don't think it would be worth asking because my school seems to be awkward about dropping lessons. Also, we don't have separate language and lit lessons if that's what you're thinking, they're both taught in english, more or less at the same time.
Thank you, but unless someone on here is looking to take on an apprentice in Suffolk then my employers will never know that. Unless put on my CV: "English F - But over 1000 posts on a forum and no one's ever said they can't understand me"
shedfull
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SmartWerks
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Robotstar5 said:The one with the tits
And the uni kids get the girls with the biggest "personalities"
I was in a similar position to the OP, my first job was working with diesel fitters, some went the education then apprenticeship route and earned more than the apprenticeship only guys. But nearly all discouraged the uni route, really wish I hadn't listened to them as they had there own bitter agendas and to be honest were out of touch with the modern world and stuck in a 40 year rut.
Really i cant believe how many people are discouraging this young man from making an informed choice, if education doesnt work out he can still fall back on the stuck in the same job until im bitter route.
dont worry about english qualifications, maths and science are what matter if your literacy is of a good standard. English bored me too, teaching something you know instinctively does seem somewhat fruitless. Although i am surprised he needs to ask. Forget money for now, again a mistake i made. Go learn and have fun with it, the girls are way hotter than what you will meet down your local haunts with us guys who have regrets.
Maker
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I see your turners cube and raise you a
.I really wouldn't like the forces, I can't get up that early I can't actually sprint 100 metersMaker:
Decent compromise solution could be the forces.
Pluses:
Military now offer recognised trades training (Recognised apprenticeships, NVQs etc) (unlike years ago where no one but them recognised it) and if you join as enlisted (rather than commissioned) you get to get your hands dirty...often VERY dirty
However the opportunities to advance yourself are there (known guys who have went to university fulltime while in the military and still been paid their normal salary whilst there, though they are expected to be on active duty when others are off on university summer break), if you decide to go commissioned later on then its possible (and quite few do so in the Royal Navy)
Non contributory pension, free health care and gym access, no tuition fees, paid more than an apprentice (I think starting pay is around £13-15K for an enlisted sailor/airman/soldier rising to circa £20K post basic, and cheap beer.
Also housing is cheap as chips, and looks good on the CV...shows you can follow instruction, meet set standards and have a decent standard of work ethic / team working and can handle responsibility
Banter is good also
Bad sides:
drill, extremely early starts (try 5am ish in basic to do an hour of outdoor PT before 6am...no matter the weather, lots and lots of ironing etc, possibility of being sent to unpleasant places (albeit with extra pay usually), lots of "hurry up and wait". food ranges from "what the heck is this" to extremely rare moments of "oh that looks fantastic"
If your interested, go down to your local Armed forces career office and talk to the various services. Each service (Army, RAF, RN/RM) each have their own careers website with a lot of information on them. Often there is a waiting list for training places / time taken to meet their fitness standards though. Wholly non committal until you sign a contract and even then you can leave before the end of basic if you decide its not for you.
Something to consider
Hope that helps..
(But strangely I don't struggle to ride 20 miles in a day on my single speed jump bike
.) , I won't eat crap food, ETC. Also, Don't you have to stay there for at least 10 years or something to get the pension and that kind of thing?
brightspark
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my daughters just jacked in the navy after 8 years weapons engineer . working with me at the moment electrical contracting and got a job in a months time training to be a wind turbine engineer 
Maker
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Don't suppose there's many jobs working on heli's outside of the forces?
SmartWerks
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I see your turners cube and raise you aturners3D-printers dodecahedron
I really wouldn't like the forces, I can't get up that early I can't actually sprint 100 meters
Forget the forces, my old man enjoyed 29 years in the RAF. I asked him if he would join up now, his reply was a definite NO, "who wants to go to pointless "wars" slaughtering the innocent for capital gains for people who wouldnt send their own children to commit such henous acts." They dump you when your 30 as they have had your best years and by which time you have the knowledge to question.
Wedg1e
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I deal with the RAF's NDT sections; some of their guys were asked to take voluntary redundancy (to save the MOD money) after a good number of years' service: they took the payoff and left, then a year later the RAF called them up and asked them to come back to their old jobs... on better terms and for more money
So now you know where your taxes go...
SmartWerks
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My old man was in avionics who had a lucrative career in BAE after leaving the RAF, very skilled man but sadly still working for the war machine. This time training Saudi Arabia's which turned out a never ending task but topped up his pension nicely. Don't assume people who oppose war don't know, most know much more about it than we could ever do.
