Which donor - Disco/Vitara/Frontera for kit business ?

  1. winchman

    winchman Member

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    300tdi would there be enough left?
    P38 Range Rover BMW diesel engine but poor electrics but a £40K car for £1000
    Shougun, plenty about
    Its a difficult one
     
  2. armalites Member

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    3,826
    Herefordshire
    Have a look at these, they are currently available options for Discovery 1, nothing like what you are planning but they may be able to give you some info re IVA

    http://www.rotodama.co.uk/

    http://www.longranger.net/ These guys used to do a full kit that involved shortening the chassis but I think there were some issues regarding "radically altered"
     
  3. supaimpy Member

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    60
    Dorset UK
    Use a NEW chassis but 1 donor vehicle you can be a kit conversion which means you can avoid Q , it will get an age related plate (related to donor but not the donors number) however the inspection route is I believe just the same.
    Remember to avoid rad altered means a totally standard chassis, no removal of any parts , thats where bob tailed discos and rangies fall foul , so the original oem chassis may not be the best option, the unmodded chassis is necessary for 5 of the 8 points, if the vehicle later dips below 8 points it will still need IVA, even trickier then though as you need a build sheet to show how its put together . The gov site actually has a spelling mistake on kit converted section it should read unaltered chassis
     
  4. stuvy

    stuvy Member

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  5. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

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    Thanks @stuvy - interesting site as yes pretty much what I would be doing (if I go Disco) - but with a different design and market in mind. Their pricing drop downs don't seem to make sense though (and all ex VAT of course!). - Perhaps that's a vote for Pajero/Shogun!
     
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  6. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    You have to ask your self what people want out of it especially spending X amount and x hours building it for it still to be a Popeye Kia or frontera

    Your best bet is a kit car as you can do what MEV does and build a brand and sell it
     
  7. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

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    I was originally going to build a MEV Exocet - but did not like them when I saw one for real - that's why my Sandrail has an MX-5 engine as I had already stripped the donor.

    This would be simple - either flat packed with jigs or pre-tacked, infill panels and whatever else I find whilst building the prototype. Unbolt the body, bolt on the frame.

    This operation - that traded under many different names (the owner has now passed away), built mainly beetle based sandrail frames - same deal ie a straight body swap. He started on a frame for a Disco, I have only ever seen the pics of the one though so I don't think it was ever finished before the operation ran into problems. http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4083
     
  8. bricol Member

    Messages:
    688
    N.Yorks, UK
    Exactly.
    Taking the shell off and replacing it with something completely different, new seatbelt mounts, new lights, new seat mountings - all radical alterations, meaning IVA.

    Keep the original unaltered chassis as 5 of the 8 points and gain the other three from somewhere and you keep the original plate.

    As I managed with a Stratos replica some years ago - don't ask me how as I'm not quite sure ;) All the points added up, and after what was then SVA, I got the to keep the number, rather than a Q-plate.
     
  9. lincoln2013 Member

    Messages:
    49
    South west UK
    Totally agree with this by the time you have built the proto type and any jigs you may need etc, marketed it & started production any of the less common donor vehicles will be virtually extinct.
     
  10. steviec_lj

    steviec_lj Rust Welding Professional

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    If you go ahead with the Pajero/Shogun based design, please pass my details on to your customers, I can lay my hands on 4 if not 5 MK2 chassis’s quite quickly. 3 still have front and rear axles attached too!
     
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  11. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

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    How different is the Delica Chassis to the Pajero/Shogun - I see WP describe it as "This versatile vehicle utilized a modified version of the Mitsubishi Pajero's chassis"
     
  12. nickk Forum Supporter

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    Are there any Nivas left,thought they were tough.
     
  13. ibrooks Member

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    1,024
    UK Lancashire
    I think you'd struggle to find a "better" option that a Discovery 1/classic RangeRover - as others have said they are cheap and plentiful and with massive aftermarket support for both modified and standard parts and importantly........ knowhow. The Discovery 1 and Classic Range Rover share a chassis (there were very minor differences over the years but they are pretty much interchangeable). Later ones were cursed with an overabundance of electronic "features" that you'll likely want to ditch but the knowhow is out there so you aren't going to be having to work out how to hack the wiring looms yourself and passing that on to customers - you could just point them in the right direction. There are even places that will sell you a basic loom for a competition motor based on one.

    Regarding Discovery1 versus Discovery2 - they are similar enough that swaps have been done so would it would probably be well worth investigating whether your frame could be made to fit either. Whether that's a common frame that would bolt to either chassis or a frame that could be produced in two versions with minimal changes at the weld together stage.

    When I say a "better" option, I'm not saying a Discovery is better than an insert rival 4x4 here - but even the most rabid anti-Landrover people are forced to admit the ones we are realistically considering (Classic RangeRover, D1 & D2) are a solid performer in their field and I think they've got to tick almost all the other boxes if looking for a donor for a body conversion.
     
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  14. Morris Member

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    116
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    That's not correct. The 8 point rule is interpreted as it is written (which does not mention lights, seat mounts etc.).
    My Standard 12 pickup has a home built body, seat belt mounts, lights, fuel tank, windscreen etc. All registered correctly as a body swap, photos sent to DVLA. Original registration and V5 amended to say "built from parts, some of which may not be new"
    Current requirements are that they require before and after photos so pre stripped rolling chassis is a no-no (mine pre-dated that and was a stripped rolling chassis).
     
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  15. CompoSimmonite Member

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    I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days. The planned design will have limited appeal to most people so your target group will be those who want such a specialist type vehicle just for off road, and therefore doesn't need to be made road legal, or just want something different and therefore will probably already expect that IVA will be needed.
    I think some "market research" is needed to check demand as rock climbing in a vehicle isn't exactly a common UK pursuit ! A set of tyres alone are going to cost an arm and a leg and fitting normal / common Land Rover sized will look a bit silly.
    If it's a potential business venture then I'd say by the time you have produced a prototype, got liability cover etc then you might earn more per hour stacking shelves in a supermarket.
    IMO a Defender replica based on a standard Disco chassis is going to get more interest from potential customers than a rock climber style.
    On the other hand if this is just for personal use and no intention of making for resale then "go for it" :)
     
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  16. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

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    Nope. Not looking at that market at all -though there is a market for that, just look at all the 4x4 clubs and competitions - not to mention the whole industry of after market tough parts for Land Rovers etc.

    This is a mainly road vehicle that looks like an off road baja/sandrail/rock bouncer - it will retain the off road capabilities of the base vehicle but it would be aimed at the kit car market that wants something "off road style" instead of "race car Lotus 7 style". - Basing it off an existing ladder chassis vehicle makes the build easier, quicker and cheaper.
     
  17. ibrooks Member

    Messages:
    1,024
    UK Lancashire
    Got to admit I question whether the market is there. Ones I've looked at for when I get fed up of welding the body on my Discovery.

    The NCF/FourWD Sahara was on my list but they aren't making them any more due to lack of demand. Looks largely like a roof chopped Defender.

    The Dakar went the same way despite also trying to get into the commercial market under one of the owners with all new vehicles (and military from memory). It's far more of a buggy style - and sometimes came with Anneka Rice attached.

    Rotodama are the newest I'm aware of and I personally like it but think their market model is a pipe dream. It's a forward control body conversion but they are only doing mostly complete conversions at silly money. Being a bit different I think there could be potential here if they did it as a kit with more left for the buyer to do and keeping the cost down. The 101" commands a big premium so I'd have thought a "build your own" on later mechanicals had potential especially if it looked a bit more like a "real" one.

    There's a Hummer lookalike (Hurricane or Tornado or some such name). Bonkers money from what I saw.

    There has been a Jeep lookalike (maybe a Jago offering at some point alongside the Ford based ones if memory serves).

    There are numerous "hybrids" that have been made over the years using a RangeRover chassis and mechanicals with Series or Defender bodies grafted on - Mark Evans' is probably the easiest to find some details on as it was one of his TV series projects but he was by no means the first or last.

    Even LandRover got in on the act with the Llama which again I thought should have been a winner but it never went anywhere.
     
  18. MoreWellie Member

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  19. Wightsparks

    Wightsparks Forum Supporter

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    http://www.dakar4x4.me.uk/ Dakar still going - they were at the Stoneleigh kit car show, look better in reality than the pics. Completely useless at the show though, asked a couple of questions and blank faces all round.

    This is pretty much what I am aiming at - https://kingfisheroverland.com/ these guys have been doing this a long time, and it looks great - though just a painted frame is 3.5K, and that's before you buy a Beetle. They had a nice beetle chassis on display - they paid 3K for it (just the chassis) - now that's scene tax :o Love the car, disagree with the donor.

    Like I said, probably going to build one for me, but if it turns out there is a market for the kit then it would not be good to have based it on an unobtainable/very expensive donor (like a beetle) - hence the question.

    Certainly Disco 1 seems to be the favourite, but I want to find out a bit more about the Pajero/Shogun. At first glance on Ebay there are a lot of Disco's but looking closer a lot of them are very broken or have intergalactic mileage.

    @steviec_lj do you happen to have any pics of a Shogun with no body on?
     
  20. HughF

    HughF Member

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    Monocoque...
     
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