Smart and Brown model M Mk1

  1. spencer 427 Member

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    7,008
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    uk colchester
  2. ranchero Member

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    132
    Location:
    southampton
    i have just bought one of these. its in good working order paint is scruffy, has a bit a rust on the handles and it staying that way. thanks to all for the useful read
     
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  3. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

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    12,966
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    Came across this post while hunting for something else. Don't suppose you ever found the changewheels mate
     
  4. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    Hi All,

    Just joined this forum. I've my father's old Model M Mk 1 and have been slowly rejuvenating it for some time - life, travel and fishing slowed things down! Now that I'm retired I'm finally on the home stretch, but was looking for clarity on how some bits go together - ie the position of the headstock and how the motor is adjusted and belt tension eased when changing speeds. That all led me here! Any thoughts on the belt tensioning and motor mounting will be much appreciated.

    As I've been progressing my refurb I've also been drawing all the parts in Onshape and will put links below to the various sets of drawings; all sizes are as measured rather than as designed. They're all publicly accessible and if you want to edit them you can setup your own free account and copy them to there. The only limitation for free accounts is that your drawings are public, but I've no IP in them anyway so... If you need a dimensioned drawing of a specific part and don't want to go to the trouble of setting up an account let me know and I'll try and create one for you. Some of you may be aware that the Yahoo have done away with their groups, in anticipation of that I copied everything from yahoo to a 'S&B Model M' group on groups.io, this is the link: https://groups.io/g/Model-M

    Hope these help


    Headstock: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/e...df99d90ae6405339ed/e/4027cc8de9dcc83ef1217420
    Saddle Base: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/a...a98f59e0598cae659f/e/010c55f7cfc8e27e6e2b79fb
    Saddle Top: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/a...cedea3024287a38660/e/f342524d11a378028a8a3ca6
    Leadscrew: https://cad.onshape.com/documents/8...c94d440d87b27f935b/e/a200dd2ba1e4ccc1aa3095c2
    (Note. In some locations I have omitted springs as these seem impossible to draw and then mate properly).
     
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  5. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

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    12,966
    Location:
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    Hi Peter. Thanks for sharing the Drawings. I will look through these later.
    Regarding headstock position. Mine was refitted in it's original position flush with the changewheel side of the bed and adjusted the motor position to suit.

    Only picture I can find of motor tension adjuster. Il try and grab some today while I'm in there.
    IMG_20170520_220254.jpg
     
  6. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

    Messages:
    12,966
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    Here you go. Hinged plate fixed to the rear of the cabinet. Adjuster at the front
    My M is a bit of an anomaly. Never seen one with the same cabinet
     
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  7. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    Hi,

    Sorry for not replying sooner, I only found your reply late last night (notifications had defaulted to off in the forum - now set correctly).

    As you say your cabinet is different to the others I've seen, mine lacks the motor support point you've highlighted. However, the motor frame and adjuster are very similar to the ones I acquired on a trip to a chap near Ipswich a few of years ago. I think I'm going to have to manufacture a block that can be bolted to the frame using the 3 holes at the front.

    Getting there slowly!

    Many thanks for the photos.

    Peter


    Photo 15-04-2020, 08 39 49.jpg Photo 15-04-2020, 08 39 59.jpg
     
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  8. Seadog

    Seadog Forum Supporter

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    That's an interesting shade of lilac, or is it the lighting? :D
     
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  9. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

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    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    Should do the job nicely. If you haven't already got a motor I recommend a 3phase and inverter. Made a huge improvement to nine.

    Do you have collet's and a drawbar for yours?
     
  10. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    it does look lilac doesn't it! Actually its meant to be Hammerite Smooth 'Blue Slate' and appears more grey in real life.
     
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  11. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    I've got a range of accessories including the drawbar and some collets, a face place and 3 & 4 jaw chucks. Unfortunately my fathers garage had a leak in the roof and though everything is recoverable it all needs a good clean and derust. But I'm not particularly in a hurry.

    I've bought a Schneider ATV12 inverter and TEC 0.75kw motor. The motor is larger than the 3/4HP originally fitted, but the shaft size is closer to the drive pulley bore size (should only need a small shim to fill the gap!). I'm going to fit a frequency adjustment which, in theory, should allow me to use the original design speeds without the need to change the belt.
     
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  12. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

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    12,966
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    Mine has a 2hp motor on it without ill effect so you will be fine

    Have a spare drawbar shaft here. That's why I asked. Well. It's for a model A but I've already modified one for the M.

    Look forward to seeing it progress
     
  13. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    Thats good to know - I was debating whether to limit the power using the inverter setup, but I'll not bother unless there is some particular reason to do so.

    I'll try and remember to take more pictures! I've had to clean quite a few dented bits and pieces and even relieved some of the high points on the main leadscrew half-nut plain shell (it was knocking as I manually traversed the saddle). I think that had not been obvious previously as the security of the leadscrew was poorly done and I've also reversed the leadscrew to put the wear at the other end (not that there appeared to be much). Just need to get it running to see if it was worth all the effort!
     
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  14. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    This mornings effort as I try and work out the relative geometry and how much space I've got!!


    Motor & Frame.JPG
     
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  15. Peter Morris

    Peter Morris New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Lifton, Devon, UK
    Details of fabricated adjustment steady bracket.

    1. Notice that lathe base has a broken web where the adjustment mechanism should be mounted, and that suitable holes have already been drilled and tapped (M8 - relief!).
    2. Obtain v. rusty old bedframe from neighbours garden, clean and derust as necessary.
    3. Weld with miniture gas kit that's not really upto the job (now need a pray a bit!).
    4. Result - working adjustment mechanism.
    5. Tomorrow: fashion a frame for the motor and include ability to adjust for level and orientation.


    Photo 18-04-2020, 15 14 31 (small).jpg Photo 17-04-2020, 12 08 47 (small).jpg Photo 18-04-2020, 15 14 58 (small).jpg
     
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  16. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

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    12,966
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    Time for it to go to it's new home.

    Painting each section individually made pulling it apart easy.

    6 bolts to undo tomorrow and it's ready to go.
     
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  17. Dieselkid 63

    Dieselkid 63 Banned from forklifts

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    You selling it?
     
  18. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Member

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    12,966
    Location:
    Bedfordshire England
    Aye. Being collected Saturday.

    Still have the L but that will probably go once I've put it back together.
     
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  19. Ashley Burton

    Ashley Burton Member

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  20. My Old Landy

    My Old Landy Melting Metal

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    238
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    Buckinghamshire UK
    I can't wait :thumbup:
     
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