Lidl Plasmas Coming Soon!

[hotponyshoes]

Dumb questions time (it'll become obvious I know very little about plasma cutters).

1. Pilot Arc. This is a good feature & means you can light the arc flame without needing it to touch/scratch it on the metal you want to cut, yes?

2. If the torch can be lit without contact & in free air - does this mean that you could use it to say heat up seized nuts to free them (like you would with oxy or MAPP gas)?

3. If you have a compressor (I have 2, one being a portable 100L belt-drive), then the lack of an on-board air compressor doesn't create any problems or significant negatives?

4. Can you use a PC to cut out corroded metal on the vehicle realistically & practically, & without torching the thing?

Ta muchly.

G.

1. Yes, main benifit is you can cut through painted metal, also good for weldmesh etc.

2. No, the flame is still the same intensity so will just cut the nut/bolt up rather than heat it. Look at an induction heater for that..

3. No. Inbuilt compressor makes the unit easier to move, quicker to set up but probably comes with a decrease in proformance? It's generally reccomended to use clean dry air for a plasma so you might want to account for that in the budget but I can't imagine the lidl in-built version has much in the way of air drying in it?

4. Yes, much safer than a gas torch, main risk is burning through one panel into another behind. If you had 2 cars and wanted to transplant a panel from one to another the plasma might not be the best/only tool to use on both but for quickly removing a panel from a donor car you can just whip around it oversize with the plasma then put it on the bench to trim/tidy it up using more controlled methods.

 

[GRW]

1. Yes, main benifit is you can cut through painted metal, also good for weldmesh etc.

2. No, the flame is still the same intensity so will just cut the nut/bolt up rather than heat it. Look at an induction heater for that..

3. No. Inbuilt compressor makes the unit easier to move, quicker to set up but probably comes with a decrease in proformance? It's generally reccomended to use clean dry air for a plasma so you might want to account for that in the budget but I can't imagine the lidl in-built version has much in the way of air drying in it?

4. Yes, much safer than a gas torch, main risk is burning through one panel into another behind. If you had 2 cars and wanted to transplant a panel from one to another the plasma might not be the best/only tool to use on both but for quickly removing a panel from a donor car you can just whip around it oversize with the plasma then put it on the bench to trim/tidy it up using more controlled methods.

Thank you! I've been awkwardly cutting/grinding (4.5" grinder discs & a Die Grinder)a section if chassis rail out from my old Convoy underneath as its Swiss cheese.... & was thinking maybe it'd have been a lot easier with a plasma to just whoosh it out.

Dunno anything about air-drying or what you'd need to fit, but noted there is a water separator on the Regulator fitted to the back of the Parkside PC.

Think I might be cutting and lifting up a largeish section of the flat floor too (tin weevil plus access to weld chassis repair from above instead of all under the van)... thinking a plasma might be overkill for that task though, plus would need to make sure nowhere near fuel lines, electrical wiring, brake lines etc.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Using a plasma on a car is much like using a grinder. With a grinder you have to make sure the trail of sparks are not going towards a full line or something. Same with a plasma except most of the sparks go forward rather than backwards.
Probably better for cutting out a section of chassis rail as most of the sparks will go inside the rail.
Problem with plasma is, its easy to get a nice stright line using a guide on a workbench. If you have good access all round a chassis rail you can follow a chalk line or tack some bits of flat bar onto the offcut side as a guide. Most times on cars it's a fight to find enough space to get in there. A plasma is good for that as the torch is smaller than a grinder and the cutting speed is so quick you can just roughly cut out multiple sections until you get close then finish up the edges when you have room to get the grinder in the newly cut gap.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Regarding my previous answer to #2...
That may not be quite right...

I've previously used the plasma to burn off siezed nuts/bolts. Either when heat has failed to shift them or there are a few to do and look like burning them off will be easier.
I've never actually tried heating one with a plasma.

First thing, I previously had a big 3ph plasma with pilot arc. From memory the pilot arc would only run for maybe 3 seconds and then it would all stop automatically if you had not started cutting.
I don't know if they all behave like this?

If not, I think, with the pilot arc running, once the 'flame' contacts the bolt it will just switch to cutting mode anyway.

Possibly you could just turn the power down so it's not enough to start cutting but I think the flame is so narrow even at low power you'll just get a small line cut into the bolt.
Different size tips are available, maybe you could increase the tip size?
I'd think if it was viable they would sell special heating consumables and I don't recall ever seeing any.
Or, maybe if you just cut a series of lines into the bolt head enough heat might transfer into the bolt but I'm not convinced it's going to work.
There is a lot of air blowing out of the torch and that seems to cool the part down.
If you were cutting 5mm sheet it's probably cooler after cutting with a plasma than it would be if you cut it with an angle grinder.
Probably because the plasma is so much quicker there is not so much time for heat soak.

 

[GRW]

Regarding my previous answer to #2...
That may not be quite right...

I've previously used the plasma to burn off siezed nuts/bolts. Either when heat has failed to shift them or there are a few to do and look like burning them off will be easier.
I've never actually tried heating one with a plasma.

First thing, I previously had a big 3ph plasma with pilot arc. From memory the pilot arc would only run for maybe 3 seconds and then it would all stop automatically if you had not started cutting.
I don't know if they all behave like this?

If not, I think, with the pilot arc running, once the 'flame' contacts the bolt it will just switch to cutting mode anyway.

Possibly you could just turn the power down so it's not enough to start cutting but I think the flame is so narrow even at low power you'll just get a small line cut into the bolt.
Different size tips are available, maybe you could increase the tip size?
I'd think if it was viable they would sell special heating consumables and I don't recall ever seeing any.
Or, maybe if you just cut a series of lines into the bolt head enough heat might transfer into the bolt but I'm not convinced it's going to work.
There is a lot of air blowing out of the torch and that seems to cool the part down.
If you were cutting 5mm sheet it's probably cooler after cutting with a plasma than it would be if you cut it with an angle grinder.
Probably because the plasma is so much quicker there is not so much time for heat soak.

Ah, OK.
My thinking / wondering was whether if a Plasma was turned down to a low power level (like for cutting thin steel say) it'd just heat (not kept on too long obvs) and not cut.
Hadn't thought about nozzle sizes (ignorant of them) - but can see that a low setting with a wide nozzle dispersing the power would be rubbish for cutting.... but might ( might) heat a bolt but not cut/melt it.
I expected to be wrong - but hadn't seen anything specific so thought I'd ask

 

[Seadog]

The plasma temperature is still going to be 20,000°C, whether its turned up or down. That's about 14 times higher than the melting point of steel. I can't see it ending well.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Ah, OK.
My thinking / wondering was whether if a Plasma was turned down to a low power level (like for cutting thin steel say) it'd just heat (not kept on too long obvs) and not cut.
Hadn't thought about nozzle sizes (ignorant of them) - but can see that a low setting with a wide nozzle dispersing the power would be rubbish for cutting.... but might ( might) heat a bolt but not cut/melt it.
I expected to be wrong - but hadn't seen anything specific so thought I'd ask

You could try it on an old bolt/bit of scrap.
I'd guess that the heat of a plasma arc is well over the melting point of metal.
Even at "low" power settings I'd think the arc will just burn/melt any steel it comes into contact with. It just won't burn so deep.

Plenty of plasma manafactures target automotive workshops and it must be something they get asked about.
I'd think if it was possible it would be a heavily promoted sales pitch...

 

[Seadog]

I'd guess that the heat of a plasma arc is well over the melting point of metal.

See above.

 

[GRW]

You could try it on an old bolt/bit of scrap.
I'd guess that the heat of a plasma arc is well over the melting point of metal.
Even at "low" power settings I'd think the arc will just burn/melt any steel it comes into contact with. It just won't burn so deep.

Plenty of plasma manafactures target automotive workshops and it must be something they get asked about.
I'd think if it was possible it would be a heavily promoted sales pitch...

I think @Seadog just firmly buried the thought with his reply

 

[Seadog]

Nothing to be lost by having a play with a piece of scrap. I woukd, if I could be bothered

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've seen some "art", Sort of engraving where they drag the plasma over a thicker bit of steel to just cut into the surface.
You might be able to get some heat into a bolt head like that but I reckon the time would be better spent with wd40 and a hammer...

 

[knighty]

with pilot arc I think you could use a plasma to heat up a nut, just keep the torch further away from it?

good chance you'll ruin the nut, but by the tume you're useing a plasma to heat it the nut is the least of your worries?

 

[GRW]

with pilot arc I think you could use a plasma to heat up a nut, just keep the torch further away from it?

good chance you'll ruin the nut, but by the tume you're useing a plasma to heat it the nut is the least of your worries?

That was my thinking - but based on theory with no actual experience of a plasma

 

[DAPPH]

Dumb questions time (it'll become obvious I know very little about plasma cutters).

1. Pilot Arc. This is a good feature & means you can light the arc flame without needing it to touch/scratch it on the metal you want to cut, yes?

2. If the torch can be lit without contact & in free air - does this mean that you could use it to say heat up seized nuts to free them (like you would with oxy or MAPP gas)?

3. If you have a compressor (I have 2, one being a portable 100L belt-drive), then the lack of an on-board air compressor doesn't create any problems or significant negatives?

4. Can you use a PC to cut out corroded metal on the vehicle realistically & practically, & without torching the thing?

Ta muchly.

G.

~4

I used plywood to deflect the sprayed hot metal , most of it was cool enough after passing through 2 foot of air to not set an oil soaked rubber hairy ex internal door mat on fire ..but I did have extinguishing stuff to hand ..sand and a dry powder extinguisher out the caravan just incase . It didn't even melt pin holes my poly fibre mole skin jeans , unlike the sparks off the 100 mm angle grinder .

I was cutting ancient 5 mm aluminium chequer plate .. had loads of micro pin head globules of cooled /solidified oxidized aluminium on the floor .

The dross is a PIA ........ when I got some on the welding bench , i nhad to clean every thing off and vacuum the bench & all the bits fromthe bench

Maybe set up an industrial wet & dry vacuum with a 2 " alu flexi hose into the top of a sealable screw top container so the end in the container can be submerged under water and put the suction out adjacent to it in the lid using Scotchbrite pads as the moisture demister & filter . Such a water bath suction device is also good to put on the side of a power saw with a tungsten blade when cutting * chasing out plaster for new power cables .

 

[fractured]

Aldi fire blankets currently £7 for 1m x 1m

 

[Turbo]

The 16 amp plugged 40 amp cutting with internal compressor and decent torch are our standard form it seems , the EU one appears to be a considerably lesser beast .

Wrong way round! GB got the 30a version on a 13a plug, EU & Northern Ireland got the 40a version with the 16a plug. It has been discussed on the board somewhere.
They are both the same internally & some members have tweaked a pot inside to bring the 30a version up to 40a.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Wrong way round! GB got the 30a version on a 13a plug, EU & Northern Ireland got the 40a version with the 16a plug. It has been discussed on the board somewhere.
They are both the same internally & some members have tweaked a pot inside to bring the 30a version up to 40a.

I think the uk got the 40a version with the internal compressor at a later stage.
It came with a 16a plug on it.

 

[Onthespotwelding]

I think the uk got the 40a version with the internal compressor at a later stage.
It came with a 16a plug on it.

Correct that’s the one I have.

 

[Barking Mat]

That was my thinking - but based on theory with no actual experience of a plasma

You're not going to heat up a nut with plasma, you're going to destroy / disfigure it at best.

 

[willie.macleod]

You can gouge the nuts off with a plasma, I do this a fair amount on difficult to access fixings. Don't expect to reuse the bolt unless you have had plenty of practice with this technique! BTW the Parkside plasma with the built in compressor is a handy bit of kit for things like this, so much easier not having to drag an airline out with you.