Energy prices.

[fizzy]

Well put. To add I have posted information about storage, that I have full facts about (because I'm installing it) to have it dismissed as useless or too small

Honestly can't have a reasoned debate, unless we agree with him

You often accuse me of things. I reply with a fact and you go quiet.
You accused me of running a business which puts out loads of CO2. I responded but no comment. You inferred I was doing nothing to combat climate change. I replied again no comment. You state you have all these facts but can't publish them or you would lose your job.

 

[fizzy]

Yep, same as his un-based scurrilous insinuation of the panels being supplied by Canadian Solar.

For a start, if he had known anything about Canadian Solar, he might have known they provide panels which may be made in Ca, but could also be of chinese origin. Perhaps Fizzy should provide details of better performing panels that are actually made in the UK, before just dissing the product, but somehow I doubt he could!

I have half a dozen Canadian Solar panels, so I do know a bit about them. Obviously a bit more than fizzy knows (that makes it zilch, by my maths).

I doubt I could either. same as with all the windmills. Made in Denmark most of them. Very good reasons to stop buying them and invest in energy that creates jobs in Britain!
I have no problem with you have solar panels on your own roof. With electric prices so high they make sense even in the UK's poor climate. However if you are selling the surplus back to the grid and making profit out of it then that is a subsidy which other people are paying for.

 

[fizzy]

Well put. To add I have posted information about storage, that I have full facts about (because I'm installing it) to have it dismissed as useless or too small

Honestly can't have a reasoned debate, unless we agree with him

Not at all - I try to but then you never reply. Like my comment on LED lamp posts. You basically called me an idiot. I replied with data from the manufactures - no further comments!

Anyway here is a question for you. What is the point in battery storage unless you plan going totally offgrid? Or are you using cheap mains night time electricity to store it for use during the day?

 

[Maker]

Anyway here is a question for you. What is the point in battery storage unless you plan going totally offgrid? Or are you using cheap mains night time electricity to store it for use during the day?

Battery storage is necessary for phasing out gas turbines, nuclear plants can't ramp up immediately so the grid needs "Peaking" power plants to accommodate spikes in demand, at the moment they're all gas turbines and diesel engines. Battery storage fits that role perfectly. The grid also needs Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR), which a network of grid storage batteries could be part of, along with pumped storage. No one's proposing batteries can run the whole country for a week when the wind stops blowing.

 

[Kayos]

Not at all - I try to but then you never reply. Like my comment on LED lamp posts. You basically called me an idiot. I replied with data from the manufactures - no further comments!

Anyway here is a question for you. What is the point in battery storage unless you plan going totally offgrid? Or are you using cheap mains night time electricity to store it for use during the day?

I lost interest in the lamp posts. I have data to show an led uses 40% less energy for the same luminance, as far as I'm concerned that's a 40% saving. I do not need to justify it further. I have access to every tier 1 manufacturer so choosing the correct one makes a difference

Storage has multiple uses, a common one we are seeing is a link between PV and EV charging. Might as well charge the battery for free to be used when the PV isn't producing

I have never seen a system that charged from the mains to use it at off peak times, for a commercial process they would just move production to the off peak time

It is quite simple, use the stored self generated electricity when needed rather than exporting back for the pointless feed in rates

 

[fizzy]

Especially as they are driving up the costs of our electricity!

Run that past us with some relevant real-world, up-to-date figures please. OK, I know you can’t because you are wrong, as usual.

Do explain your understanding of ‘contract for difference’ pricing, as It differs from mine (even though I’m not an expert at it)

Do tell us how much these new installations (particularly the MALLARD PASS xdevelopment) are going to increase the cost of electricity. Do tell us how much energy is lost (from these new installations) due to non-available storage. Evidence, not empty claims, are required here - if you post at all. Let’s have some truths, not unsubstantiated claims of an anti-renewable energy know-nothing.

The figures have been manipulated so much it is almost impossible to produce real World examples.
Let's look at some facts. During the night no power will be generated.
On cloudy days power drops significantly.
In Winter power drops off massively.
What is the purpose of the storage?

 

[fizzy]

I lost interest in the lamp posts. I have data to show an led uses 40% less energy for the same luminance, as far as I'm concerned that's a 40% saving. I do not need to justify it further. I have access to every tier 1 manufacturer so choosing the correct one makes a difference

Storage has multiple uses, a common one we are seeing is a link between PV and EV charging. Might as well charge the battery for free to be used when the PV isn't producing

I have never seen a system that charged from the mains to use it at off peak times, for a commercial process they would just move production to the off peak time

It is quite simple, use the stored self generated electricity when needed rather than exporting back for the pointless feed in rates

I provided data that showed there was no difference. I provided this data you didn't.
Battery storage in your case makes sense - I am all for that.
Also I am not in any way questioning your abilities. You are very professional in what you do.
It's just that I question the whole renewables lark and the costs.

You mentioned before installing large industrial air source heat pumps. I looked the company up and was very pleasantly surprised to see they were British. I looked at the manufacturers data and they mentioned a 10% saving on electricity costs. I suppose that is better than nothing but it does seem a lot of work and outlay for fairly small gains.

 

[fizzy]

Battery storage is necessary for phasing out gas turbines, nuclear plants can't ramp up immediately so the grid needs "Peaking" power plants to accommodate spikes in demand, at the moment they're all gas turbines and diesel engines. Battery storage fits that role perfectly. The grid also needs Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR), which a network of grid storage batteries could be part of, along with pumped storage. No one's proposing batteries can run the whole country for a week when the wind stops blowing.

Sadly that is exactly what many people THINK they can do!
Same with CO2 capture. Most people seem to think this actually works and is the answer

 

[dobbslc]

Annnyyyway,

And the Kawasaki GT550 as I remember.

@cheb I think you've mixed up the threads, buying a bike for investment with this most enlightening one!
Blame the heat! just blame the heat!

Forgot all the sensible despatch bikes above, I did a week on an RD125LC...

 

[fizzy]

Annnyyyway,

@cheb I think you've mixed up the threads, buying a bike for investment with this most enlightening one!
Blame the heat! just blame the heat!

Forgot all the sensible despatch bikes above, I did a week on an RD125LC...

I did wonder if he was proposing using his motorbike to generate electricity - for 14 hrs a night in Winter it would generate far more than the World's biggest solar farm

 

[Kayos]

I provided data that showed there was no difference. I provided this data you didn't.
Battery storage in your case makes sense - I am all for that.
Also I am not in any way questioning your abilities. You are very professional in what you do.
It's just that I question the whole renewables lark and the costs.

You mentioned before installing large industrial air source heat pumps. I looked the company up and was very pleasantly surprised to see they were British. I looked at the manufacturers data and they mentioned a 10% saving on electricity costs. I suppose that is better than nothing but it does seem a lot of work and outlay for fairly small gains.

Yes I've even had the factory tour, great place.

It needs looking at in a wider context, just saving electricity is not enough.
Decarbonisation is key. A current phrase in the industry is "beyond payback" so not only looking a measures that pay for themselves with savings but that are on the whole a good thing.
Ending fossil fuel use is obviously front stage at the minute

 

[fizzy]

Especially as they are driving up the costs of our electricity!

Run that past us with some relevant real-world, up-to-date figures please. OK, I know you can’t because you are wrong, as usual.

Do explain your understanding of ‘contract for difference’ pricing, as It differs from mine (even though I’m not an expert at it)

Do tell us how much these new installations (particularly the MALLARD PASS xdevelopment) are going to increase the cost of electricity. Do tell us how much energy is lost (from these new installations) due to non-available storage. Evidence, not empty claims, are required here - if you post at all. Let’s have some truths, not unsubstantiated claims of an anti-renewable energy know-nothing.

Where are the figures for the Mallard Pass site? They don't even seem to know how many panels there will be yet?
I just can't accept it is right to cover over 2000 acres of arable land with an industrial project - how much CO2 capture would there be with 2000 acres of trees? How much wildlife would 2000 acres support?
Are the companies building this doing it for the sake of the planet or to make a big fat profit? I suspect the latter which means someone has to pay for it - us the consumers!

 

[fizzy]

Yes I've even had the factory tour, great place.

It needs looking at in a wider context, just saving electricity is not enough.
Decarbonisation is key. A current phrase in the industry is "beyond payback" so not only looking a measures that pay for themselves with savings but that are on the whole a good thing.
Ending fossil fuel use is obviously front stage at the minute

Well I totally agree there - we need to stop burning fossil fuels. But sadly Britain still uses 30% to 70% gas almost every day. 39% at this particular moment.

 

[S-Rail]

@Kayos , genuine question given your the oracle on this side of things ( not being sarcastic ) … given the finite amount of resources we do have and following up on an older post about storing heat in sand etc . With all these new power banks that are being proposed in this country and worldwide , what is the likely hood of actually running these resources dry before actually meeting the set volume needed let alone the enviro cost of actually acquiring them .

I know there are always new avenues being explored but where do we stand with it all .

This isn’t a flammable post , genuinely interested given the net is full so much contradicting info

 

[Kayos]

@Kayos , genuine question given your the oracle on this side of things ( not being sarcastic ) … given the finite amount of resources we do have and following up on an older post about storing heat in sand etc . With all these new power banks that are being proposed in this country and worldwide , what is the likely hood of actually running these resources dry before actually meeting the set volume needed let alone the enviro cost of actually acquiring them .

I know there are always new avenues being explored but where do we stand with it all .

This isn’t a flammable post , genuinely interested given the net is full so much contradicting info

One solution being looked at is repurposed EV batteries, the battery station will be designed to accept a repurposed battery or batteries that go through testing to determine capacity and expected lifespan

Another option is iron based batteries, these are heavy so not suitable for EVs (Tesla use a sort of hybrid in some cars) but less of an issue mounted on a concrete base

 

[fizzy]

There you go again. None as blind as those that don’t want to even look.

Or are you unable to calculate acres from hectares. I did spell it out for you in SI units. Not my problem if you are still totally immersed in the antiquated imperial square yard units.

Here it is again. “Actually, to enlighten you just a tad (but I doubt it will), only approx 463ha will be used for solar panels”

I was obviously spot on with my doubts about your open-mindedness. Lets just ignore you - what with your clear 100% over-estimate of things (when it just appears to suit your argument) - as you have no credibility whatsoever, when the true facts need to be distributed amongst the readership.

Why the obnoxious attitude? Politeness costs nothing
I think you will find many of us still use antiquated imperial units - like 70mph on the motorway or a pint of ale!

Ok so over 1000 acres of good arable land destroyed. Is that really a good thing? With food insecurity and people going hungry?

PLEASE supply the figures you keep mentioning for this solar farm.

 

[Mikes]

Seems the one big problem with 'alternative' energy supply sources is humans. I live in the east of the country and read a regional daily paper. There are always articles regarding proposed installations and for every one there is always a group saying why they shouldn't go ahead.
We have the proposal for Sizewell C nuclear power station which has plenty of opposition.
There is a need for at least one new connection hub for the offshore wind farms along the east coast - plenty of opposition to that.
There is a need for reinforcing the grid distribution with new pylons from Norfolk to Essex - massive opposition in several counties.
Proposed and approved solar farms - plenty of local opposition to each one.
Can't see an easy solution as much of this should have been decided years ago but because we live in a democracy, there are always long drawn out planning stages.
Just look at the comments in this very long thread to see how how strong the feelings are. I don't think that being the minister in charge of this lot stands a chance.

 

[R Kraft]

Most of the reason for alternative energy and fuels , are a method to funnel money to certain groups.
Biofuels are an obvious fraud.
It takes about 1.4 gallons of fossil fuels to make 1 gallon of ethanol.
It also helps create more starvation.

Corn for Ethanol: Making Food into Fuel in a Hungry World

Should the United States be using millions of acres of cropland to grow corn for fuel-ethanol? How much food could that land produce, if it was not used to make biofuel? In the 2020/21 market year*…

hungermath.wordpress.com

From 2012 :"If all the land used to grow biofuels for the EU in 2008 had instead been used to grow food, it could have fed 127 million people for an entire year. Major land grabs are happening all over the world, often propelled by the market’s demand for biofuels, leaving marginalized communities without access to traditional land and water to grow food."

 

[Mikes]

Most of the reason for alternative energy and fuels , are a method to funnel money to certain groups.
Biofuels are an obvious fraud.
It takes about 1.4 gallons of fossil fuels to make 1 gallon of ethanol.
It also helps create more starvation.

Corn for Ethanol: Making Food into Fuel in a Hungry World

Should the United States be using millions of acres of cropland to grow corn for fuel-ethanol? How much food could that land produce, if it was not used to make biofuel? In the 2020/21 market year*…

hungermath.wordpress.com

From 2012 :"If all the land used to grow biofuels for the EU in 2008 had instead been used to grow food, it could have fed 127 million people for an entire year. Major land grabs are happening all over the world, often propelled by the market’s demand for biofuels, leaving marginalized communities without access to traditional land and water to grow food."

Yes, there's been a lot of daft ideas in the name of green energy. Worst one must have been the wood pellet boilers that were being foisted on schemes to meet the renewables and carbon reductions. Remember looking at a school in the east end of London that had been sold a wood pellet boiler. Had to have a vertical silo for the pellets. Great idea as the artic lorry for replenishing it couldn't get down the narrow street to the school. At the time, the only source of pellets was from Canada and shipped in massive bulk ships. Clearly the energy consultant on that job needed a bit more training!
Think we are getting to the stage of more realistic products. Hopefully the gas fired CHP bubble has well and truly burst.

 

[Morrisman]

Well with all this wonderful wind and solar we should have lovely cheap electricity shouldn't we?

There's two windmills near me, M6 J14, both can rotate to point into the wind, but I've only ever seen one actually working. I'm not sure if they are privately owned, on a farm, or what?