Energy prices.

[Kayos]

Very valid point (not one I had concidered).

Life cycle versus - cost!

Not easy to weigh up the whole "shebang" is it...?

No it isn't, but if you go deep enough into reports they do try

The problem we have seems to be a societal problem now, everything is polarised.

The question is not nuclear or renewables, the question is how much of each?

Sadly some nail their flag to the mast and are unwilling to consider the other options

We need nuclear as much as we need renewables, personally I'd like to limit the nuclear to the minimum as in 60 years my children will potentially have grandchildren of their own, and I do not want to leave them the mess of nuclear clean up

"We do not inherit the earth from our fathers, we borrow it from our children"

 

[daleyd]

What if wind was half the price , I can’t see it being there for the long game , ie how many would be replaced in 10 / 20 years alongside the battery storage , which all has a finite lifetime span V the main build of Hinckley .

Again as others say , all for renewables , but it all needs to be like for like , not just on cost , the whole shebang . Life time , disposal , the infrastructure needed for wind farms .

A quick google says Hinckley has an expected life span of 60 years , whilst a wind turbine is 20 to 25 years , so at the worst , 3 sets of turbines , at the optimistic 2.5 sets .

I know there is no easy / simple / laymens answer

isn’t that exactly what levelised cost does though - it’s the cost per unit power produced over the entire life cycle of a project. So it will take into account the life span of the project, how much power it will produce over that period and give you a figure per unit produced.

That’s literally the reason it’s used - so people in charge of the money can work out how much things are going to cost and when things like break even points are.

 

[julianthegypsy]

I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but solar is always talked about as wasting agricultural land, when there are thousands of warehouses and factories with massive roofs sitting idle that could quite easily be covered in panels. Car parks could be covered in canopies that would also provide shade for the cars underneath them. Win win. Last I heard you could only get permission to grid tie 5kw on a house and 10kw on a commercial building. That's ridiculous, and purely because the power companies prefer their current central system with a few massive power stations and don't want to deal with it. That has to change. Also worth noting that panels get hot and work best cool. Shouldn't be that difficult to cool them and send the heat underground to a heat store and use it for heating in cold weather. Not a magic bullet, but another big piece of the jigsaw puzzle.

 

[Kayos]

I don't know if I've mentioned it before, but solar is always talked about as wasting agricultural land, when there are thousands of warehouses and factories with massive roofs sitting idle that could quite easily be covered in panels. Car parks could be covered in canopies that would also provide shade for the cars underneath them. Win win. Last I heard you could only get permission to grid tie 5kw on a house and 10kw on a commercial building. That's ridiculous, and purely because the power companies prefer their current central system with a few massive power stations and don't want to deal with it. That has to change. Also worth noting that panels get hot and work best cool. Shouldn't be that difficult to cool them and send the heat underground to a heat store and use it for heating in cold weather. Not a magic bullet, but another big piece of the jigsaw puzzle.

It's also wrong

There are export limits based on cable size, not arbitrarily numbers

Currently installing 2MW on some buildings, all grid tied for when they are not in use

 

[fizzy]

isn’t that exactly what levelised cost does though - it’s the cost per unit power produced over the entire life cycle of a project. So it will take into account the life span of the project, how much power it will produce over that period and give you a figure per unit produced.

That’s literally the reason it’s used - so people in charge of the money can work out how much things are going to cost and when things like break even points are.

Well with all this wonderful wind and solar we should have lovely cheap electricity shouldn't we?

 

[daleyd]

Well with all this wonderful wind and solar we should have lovely cheap electricity shouldn't we?

What’s that got to do with what I said? Is levelised cost that, or something different?

 

[julianthegypsy]

It's also wrong

There are export limits based on cable size, not arbitrarily numbers

Currently installing 2MW on some buildings, all grid tied for when they are not in use

I'm pleased to be corrected. How many thousand more buildings do you think could have the same? Incidentally, my source for that was a friend who had 5kw on his house and 10kw on his factory/workshop next door. That was some time ago though, probably ten years. He would have had much more but wasn't allowed at the time.

 

[fizzy]

What’s that got to do with what I said? Is levelised cost that, or something different?

The whole reason we are in this mess is because of the massive amounts of money being invested in intermittent power sources. Which means we are over dependent on gas.
The levelised costs are dreamt up by people trying to justify this madness. Wind farms are paid not to generate electricity at times. Its madness all of it.
And Germany is even worse.
And yet we still put out far more CO2 than France.

 

[daleyd]

The whole reason we are in this mess is because of the massive amounts of money being invested in intermittent power sources. Which means we are over dependent on gas.
The levelised costs are dreamt up by people trying to justify this madness. Wind farms are paid not to generate electricity at times. Its madness all of it.
And Germany is even worse.
And yet we still put out far more CO2 than France.

I look forward to you providing the real figures then.

 

[Kayos]

I'm pleased to be corrected. How many thousand more buildings do you think could have the same? Incidentally, my source for that was a friend who had 5kw on his house and 10kw on his factory/workshop next door. That was some time ago though, probably ten years. He would have had much more but wasn't allowed at the time.

I am only 1 person but this summer I'm delivering about another 1MW spread over multiple buildings. A lot will be used as self consumption but this is less load on the grid

Our standard decarbonisation model is solar PV, heat pumps, and led upgrades as these currently qualify for funding in the form of energy performance guarantee loans, essentially the loan is repaid from the savings made

Next year I am looking at around 47 buildings which will have a PV install plus various other measures

It really is an easy win for commercial buildings

 

[fizzy]

I look forward to you providing the real figures then.

Almost impossible. It is a trillion dollar industry manipulating people so they can't see the obvious.
Britain and Germany went for renewables. France didn't. France puts out only a third of the CO2 we do. And they have cheaper electricity.

 

[daleyd]

I look forward to you providing the real figures then.

Ps levelised costs are just a method of calculating the life costs, they are not a “source” of any actual figures.

 

[fizzy]

Ps levelised costs are just a method of calculating the life costs, they are not a “source” of any actual figures.

Exactly.

 

[fizzy]

Today's snapshot of CO2 output per country - notice the country with the MOST nuclear power is doing the best - why are people so blinkered they can't see the obvious?
I for one DO worry about global warming and genuinely care about the environment - hence me hating it when countries like Germany rip up virgin forests for open cast coal and DRAX destroying millions of trees.

Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption

Electricity Maps is a live 24/7 visualization of where your electricity comes from and how much CO2 was emitted to produce it.

app.electricitymaps.com

 

[brewdexta]

And they have cheaper electricity.

Probably largely because they cap the price and have just nationalised the last bit of EDF

 

[Maker]

Britain and Germany went for renewables. France didn't. France puts out only a third of the CO2 we do. And they have cheaper electricity.

I think the problem is Britain and Germany went for coal.

 

[Maker]

Today's snapshot of CO2 output per country - notice the country with the MOST nuclear power is doing the best - why are people so blinkered they can't see the obvious?
I for one DO worry about global warming and genuinely care about the environment - hence me hating it when countries like Germany rip up virgin forests for open cast coal and DRAX destroying millions of trees.

Live 24/7 CO₂ emissions of electricity consumption

Electricity Maps is a live 24/7 visualization of where your electricity comes from and how much CO2 was emitted to produce it.

app.electricitymaps.com

View attachment 356097

Any idea why France, with all their nuclear capacity, is importing electricity from the UK, Spain, Belgium and Switzerland in that screenshot?

France doesn't look so special when you scroll up to include Sweden and Norway in the picture, 100% low carbon and 100% renewable in some areas!

 

[Kayos]

Such negativity! But it is what I would expect from your previous posts.

You are clearly not enlighted sufficiently to look for anything than the support of the minority of NIMBIES.

Actually, to enelighten you just a tad (but I doubt it will), only approx 463ha will be used for solar panels with approx 420ha.

You really need to read the proper information available, not the lies and bent ‘facts’ supplied by the small vociferous opponents to the development. They are just like you, attempting to clutch at a few straws and making them into a thatched roof.

I actually know there will be enegy storage included, but because I don’t actually know how much and for how long, I did not make any further claims. Your total ‘guesswork’ on the subject is 99% negative supposition I expect - just like all the rest of your negative postings On the topic.

You are very predictable - anti virtually everything unless it involves nuclear fission reactions, extremely long-lived radioactive waste, etc etc. But keep it up, the more rubbish you spout about things, the less the sensible readership will trust of anything you post up.

Well put. To add I have posted information about storage, that I have full facts about (because I'm installing it) to have it dismissed as useless or too small

Honestly can't have a reasoned debate, unless we agree with him

 

[fizzy]

Any idea why France, with all their nuclear capacity, is importing electricity from the UK, Spain, Belgium and Switzerland in that screenshot?

France doesn't look so special when you scroll up to include Sweden and Norway in the picture, 100% low carbon and 100% renewable!

View attachment 356099

Sweden and Norway are blessed with loads of hydro power. We just don't have the big mountains to do it.
Also they aren't suffering the heatwave France is at the moment.
France has also been dropping investment in nuclear - they are losing the plot. All political and also being suckered in with all this renewable crap. It is all political of course.
Although they have finally stopped messing about and are throwing themselves behind nuclear again.

 

[fizzy]

Such negativity! But it is what I would expect from your previous posts.

You are clearly not enlighted sufficiently to look for anything than the support of the minority of NIMBIES.

Actually, to enelighten you just a tad (but I doubt it will), only approx 463ha will be used for solar panels with approx 420ha.

You really need to read the proper information available, not the lies and bent ‘facts’ supplied by the small vociferous opponents to the development. They are just like you, attempting to clutch at a few straws and making them into a thatched roof.

I actually know there will be enegy storage included, but because I don’t actually know how much and for how long, I did not make any further claims. Your total ‘guesswork’ on the subject is 99% negative supposition I expect - just like all the rest of your negative postings On the topic.

You are very predictable - anti virtually everything unless it involves nuclear fission reactions, extremely long-lived radioactive waste, etc etc. But keep it up, the more rubbish you spout about things, the less the sensible readership will trust of anything you post up.

I am NOT anti everything.
If someone wants to pay out of their own pocket for solar panels for their own use on their roof I have no problem with that. With electric costing 30p per kw it makes sense.
I would not be against wind power IF there was a way to store the massive amounts of electricity they can generate on a windy day.
I am not against hydro power - although Britain has tapped most of the viable sources for that

I am anti covering our countryside with windmills and solar farms! Especially as they are driving up the costs of our electricity!