Energy prices.

[fizzy]

No, I totally agree. And I live in an area designated for a new GDF

A mate of mine lives right by an old quarry where they used to dump toxic waste. He always used to complain about it. Then they cleared the quarry and have built 300 new houses there. Many of them right up to his back garden wall. He has lost his lovely view and his privacy.
Now he wished the waste was back

 

[h-dom]

A mate of mine lives right by an old quarry where they used to dump toxic waste. He always used to complain about it. Then they cleared the quarry and have built 300 new houses there. Many of them right up to his back garden wall. He has lost his lovely view and his privacy.
Now he wished the waste was back

There's a big uproar here obviously, but they have to put it somewhere and they are choosing the best, safest places. It's over 1km deep under solid rock and most of it goes under the sea.

Don't get me wrong, when it is finally built (estimated ten years) I probably will have moved long before then but I would be happy to live here with it there.

 

[fizzy]

There's a big uproar here obviously, but they have to put it somewhere and they are choosing the best, safest places. It's over 1km deep under solid rock and most of it goes under the sea.

Don't get me wrong, when it is finally built (estimated ten years) I probably will have moved long before then but I would be happy to live here with it there.

So would I.
To give you an idea of just how closely monitored things are these days there was a radiation scare on a beach near the Windscale/Sellafield plant. One of the radiation detectors had triggered. They searched for days until they found the source. Part of a compass dial from a Lancaster bomber! Remember people used to wear luminous watches on their wrists once upon a time. Myself included as a kid

 

[Blobber]

There's a big uproar here obviously, but they have to put it somewhere and they are choosing the best, safest places. It's over 1km deep under solid rock and most of it goes under the sea.

Don't get me wrong, when it is finally built (estimated ten years) I probably will have moved long before then but I would be happy to live here with it there.

I dont disagree but why choose an area thats a major flood risk? the fact the council is getting a major bung out of it could be a good reason! you struggle to get planning on houses around here because of the flood risk, what happens when it does flood and they cant get near the site?

 

[h-dom]

I dont disagree but why choose an area thats a major flood risk? the fact the council is getting a major bung out of it could be a good reason! you struggle to get planning on houses around here because of the flood risk, what happens when it does flood and they cant get near the site?

True, and no doubt we will see no improvements with the cash

 

[fizzy]

We can all see that fizzy is a nuclear energy proponent. If not, it must be obvious from his recent near- adjacent posts.

What fizzy (conveniently?) forgets is that all those Magnox nuclear reactors of that era were primarily for nuclear weapons-grade plutonium production to add to the nuclear arsenal. Electricity generation was all well and good, but the nuclear bombs were the underlying priority. The later AGRs were good, but have out=lived their usefulness. All the rest (PWRs) have been imported technology.

We are not ” the world”. Our generation was about 20% non-fossil in the 70/80s but even with many fewer nuclear sites (and higher energy use) that figure for the UK is less than half - and reducing. Thanks, mainly, to renewables.

Seven years ago, the percentage of electricity generation using fossil fuels was about 50%. It has only reduced since - due to more renewables. Renewables may not be base load, but more and more will be produced.

At the present time, the UK has been exporting a lot of generation to the Continent. I don’t know how that is assessed, fuel-wise, for UK statistics. As more HVDC interconnections become operational, an even greater amount of renewable energy will be consumed. However, the fossil fuelled generators will still be needed for a few years yet - but they are reducing.

Yes I am a big fan of nuclear power. I did a combined Physics degree many moons ago so I am not terrified of the word nuclear!
Obviously our newer nuclear reactors are imported technology. Not surprising since Gordon Brown sold off Westinghouse and we have invested virtually nothing in nuclear technology for decades! The sooner the Rolls Royce SMRs are up and running the better.
Why is our leccy more expensive than it has ever been? Spending billions on intermittent power generation may have something to do with it.
I would love wind power IF there was a way of storing it. There isn't - not sensibly.

 

[Kayos]

As always with these threads, some great passion but a lot of misunderstanding and cherry picked quotes.

Fantastic explanation of the changes to nuclear by @not done it yet

We need a cheap, reliable and safe nuclear baseload, sadly none of the existing or planned plants are are all 3

Storage is not the answer, but it is a part of the solution. I'm not suggesting it would ever be necessary or practical to store up enough electricity for a night of use but we need a buffer as nuclear is difficult to ramp up or down and non ideal renewables may have to be brought online

 

[Kayos]

@fizzy

Why is electric expensive?

Tory party sell off and expecting a market to do anything other than pay shareholders

Nationalising is not the answer but govt investment is needed, energy, food and housing are basic human needs, all 3 are controlled by greed

 

[Gareth J]

For home users solar is a good idea with leccy prices at 30p kw/h. Commercial farms just make my blood boil though. To compete with gas they would need to be able to generate at less than 10p per kw/h at the moment which will never happen - when Putin pops his clogs gas will be down to 4p per kw/h again which shows just how expensive solar farms really are.

Why do you think solar is as expensive as you do? The last lot I put up should have a lifetime cost of generation at well below 5p/kWh. If commercial companies are doing it and it costs them 10p/unit, that seems very odd.

 

[fizzy]

As always with these threads, some great passion but a lot of misunderstanding and cherry picked quotes.

Fantastic explanation of the changes to nuclear by @not done it yet

We need a cheap, reliable and safe nuclear baseload, sadly none of the existing or planned plants are are all 3

Storage is not the answer, but it is a part of the solution. I'm not suggesting it would ever be necessary or practical to store up enough electricity for a night of use but we need a buffer as nuclear is difficult to ramp up or down and non ideal renewables may have to be brought online

Kayos
The problem is we can literally go a week or even 10 days in Winter when an area of high pressure sits over the UK and most of Europe. Wind drops to almost nothing and it is very cold. There is NO way to store that much power so where does the electricity come from? Gas obviously. And the price is through the roof. Several gas power stations have gone bust because the government expect them to survive on no income whilst the wind is blowing and yet jump into action only when needed.

Baglan Energy Park: Ministers lose bid to stop power cut

Firms at Baglan Energy Park, including a paper mill, face losing electricity supplies as a result.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[fizzy]

Why do you think solar is as expensive as you do? The last lot I put up should have a lifetime cost of generation at well below 5p/kWh. If commercial companies are doing it and it costs them 10p/unit, that seems very odd.

How much do you think they generate in December? At night?
Britain has more solar farms than Spain and Portugal put together. And yet Britain is so far North it is one of the worst countries in the World for solar.
solar farms in the UK are earning silly money to provide low CO2 credits for big companies like Amazon etc so they can pretend they are Carbon Neutral.

 

[Kayos]

Kayos
The problem is we can literally go a week or even 10 days in Winter when an area of high pressure sits over the UK and most of Europe. Wind drops to almost nothing and it is very cold. There is NO way to store that much power so where does the electricity come from? Gas obviously. And the price is through the roof. Several gas power stations have gone bust because the government expect them to survive on no income whilst the wind is blowing and yet jump into action only when needed.

Baglan Energy Park: Ministers lose bid to stop power cut

Firms at Baglan Energy Park, including a paper mill, face losing electricity supplies as a result.

www.bbc.co.uk

But wind is not the only renewable, and I agree on the size of storage. Plus again look at Dogger Bank, it's never dropped off completely

We will keep open cycle gas turbines on standby for emergency use, as nuclear cannot ramp up either

You may not be scared of nuclear, neither am I but I understand the risks, again a risk averse and short sighted govt (of whatever colour) has shoved it all onto the private sector, making the new nuclear power the most expensive it has ever been

 

[Kayos]

How much do you think they generate in December? At night?
Britain has more solar farms than Spain and Portugal put together. And yet Britain is so far North it is one of the worst countries in the World for solar.
solar farms in the UK are earning silly money to provide low CO2 credits for big companies like Amazon etc so they can pretend they are Carbon Neutral.

At night is a stupid argument

I'd share the files I have on winter generation but I don't want to lose my job to prove a point, but the answer is enough to justify them being there or they wouldn't be

I will ask again, even though you will ignore it, what are YOU, the director of a highly Co2 producing company doing to reduce your global warming potential?

 

[fizzy]

At night is a stupid argument

I'd share the files I have on winter generation but I don't want to lose my job to prove a point, but the answer is enough to justify them being there or they wouldn't be

I will ask again, even though you will ignore it, what are YOU, the director of a highly Co2 producing company doing to reduce your global warming potential?

Ignore it??? I didn't realise you asked before - perhaps I missed it.

We ship pallets - 26 fit on a lorry. 52 on a double deck trailer.
Lorries never move empty.
If someone buys an engine on Ebay from say Leeds and wants to ship it back to Southampton which do you think will use less fuel? Driving an empty van from Southampton up to Leeds and then coming back with just 1 pallet or a local depot collecting from Leeds and trunking along with 51 other pallets to a local depot in Southampton?
So in fact we are saving a lot of CO2 output.

On a personal level I burn scrap pallet wood to keep my house warm. I have changed about 40 GU10s for LED bulbs in my house. And I run my old Disco on used cooking oil

Am I doing it to save the planet? Not really - I just don't like wasting money - which funnily enough amounts to pretty much the same thing

 

[Gareth J]

How much do you think they generate in December? At night?
Britain has more solar farms than Spain and Portugal put together. And yet Britain is so far North it is one of the worst countries in the World for solar.
solar farms in the UK are earning silly money to provide low CO2 credits for big companies like Amazon etc so they can pretend they are Carbon Neutral.

Eh?

I was asking specifically why you think solar costs 10p/kWh. It probably costs close to that if you're getting a company in to put panels in a tiled roof, but as you've noticed, even at that price, that's competitive for homeowners. But at a commercial scale? Surely you don't really believe commercial solar costs as much as that?

BEIS Electricity Generation Costs (2020)

This report presents levelised cost estimates for electricity generation technologies, detailing methodology, data and assumptions.

www.gov.uk

It's closer to 4.5p/kWh. A DIY home setup can get close to that or even beat it too.

It's ok that solar is cheap. There is still a legitimate argument for nuclear.

 

[fizzy]

Eh?

I was asking specifically why you think solar costs 10p/kWh. It probably costs close to that if you're getting a company in to put panels in a tiled roof, but as you've noticed, even at that price, that's competitive for homeowners. But at a commercial scale? Surely you don't really believe commercial solar costs as much as that?

BEIS Electricity Generation Costs (2020)

This report presents levelised cost estimates for electricity generation technologies, detailing methodology, data and assumptions.

www.gov.uk

It's closer to 4.5p/kWh. A DIY home setup can get close to that or even beat it too.

It's ok that solar is cheap. There is still a legitimate argument for nuclear.

The key word is levelised.
Don't forget the infrastructure costs of these things dotted all over the place. Grid upgrades etc that are needed.
I have looked into installing solar at my Dad's old house in The Algarve. Will take 10 years break even and their weather is in a totally different league to ours.
About 6 years if I do the work myself. But that is based on 20 p per kwh not 5p.

 

[Gareth J]

The key word is levelised.
Don't forget the infrastructure costs of these things dotted all over the place. Grid upgrades etc that are needed.
I have looked into installing solar at my Dad's old house in The Algarve. Will take 10 years break even and their weather is in a totally different league to ours.
About 6 years if I do the work myself. But that is based on 20 p per kwh not 5p.

Figure sounds plausible, 10yrs to pay back and, on a 20yr life, 10yrs of free electric when the sun shines. Or a shorter payback, DIY.

Levellised cost isn't some tricksy manipulation applied to twist figures, it's just the words used to describe all the costs ("cradle to grave") associated with a tech Vs the output it gives.



It really does work out at <5p/kWh. When the sun's shining, nothing is cheaper.

 

[J1nx]

Anyone on Octopus Agile with solar or batteries (well, any export) is doing OK at the moment. Currently 58p/KWh for export and going up at 17:30.

People are even charging off the mains (home battery or electric car) just to feed back at profit…

 

[premmington]

Yes I am a big fan of nuclear power. I did a combined Physics degree many moons ago so I am not terrified of the word nuclear!
Obviously our newer nuclear reactors are imported technology. Not surprising since Gordon Brown sold off Westinghouse and we have invested virtually nothing in nuclear technology for decades! The sooner the Rolls Royce SMRs are up and running the better.
Why is our leccy more expensive than it has ever been? Spending billions on intermittent power generation may have something to do with it.
I would love wind power IF there was a way of storing it. There isn't - not sensibly.

@fizzy come stand behind me - I will protect you when the bullying starts - I too am pro nuclear.

Yes I reservations about safety - but what we are doing with fossil fuels is not "safe either" or good for the planet or peoples health.

 

[Gareth J]

I think most here understand that nuclear has its advantages and is and will be an important part of our energy mix. It's very expensive though, so at times when energy can be harvested cheaply elsewhere, people are going to do that, too.