Energy prices.

[m_c]

Fusion is the answer if we had invested at the same level as fission we might be there.
Safer process much lower, radiation in spent fuel, the Tokamak is progressing slowly but with the Hinkley C budget we may have been there.

If we can get fusion to work, it is the answer, but nobody has yet managed to create a sustained plasma. Best they've managed is a very short plasma where energy out exceeded the energy in.
Up until now, the main technology to achieve fusion hasn't existed, and it's probably safe to say that the technology to achieve it continually and reliably still doesn't physically exist.

There's a big difference between spending £xx billion on a proven technology, and spending it on technology that might not be physically achievable.
People have been saying fusion will be viable within the next decade, for several decades now, yet it's still not happened. Although with recent developments, it is getting closer.

 

[fizzy]

You mean we might be 10 years away instead of the 20 that it currently is (the same 20 years away we were 30 years ago).

Might be…

I agree nothing proven - but venture capital is throwing loads of money at it these days.
Most of the projects that are closing in are British which is very nice to see.
The Victorians would have sorted it by now - we know fusion bombs work - so they would build a massive beam engine and keep exploding bombs in the cylinder

 

[fizzy]

If we can get fusion to work, it is the answer, but nobody has yet managed to create a sustained plasma. Best they've managed is a very short plasma where energy out exceeded the energy in.
Up until now, the main technology to achieve fusion hasn't existed, and it's probably safe to say that the technology to achieve it continually and reliably still doesn't physically exist.

There's a big difference between spending £xx billion on a proven technology, and spending it on technology that might not be physically achievable.
People have been saying fusion will be viable within the next decade, for several decades now, yet it's still not happened. Although with recent developments, it is getting closer.

Remember fusion DOES work. It is not pie in the sky.

 

[daleyd]

I agree nothing proven - but venture capital is throwing loads of money at it these days.
Most of the projects that are closing in are British which is very nice to see.
The Victorians would have sorted it by now - we know fusion bombs work - so they would build a massive beam engine and keep exploding bombs in the cylinder

The problem is fusion bombs work nothing like a workable controlled process for producing energy. It’s literally the opposite of what’s needed…

 

[Maker]

Just in case there is anybody who doesn't know about the project, here is a link:

In a Few Lines

International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor is being built in the south of France. Learn more about this ambitious energy project here.

www.iter.org

I totally agree with your statement.

@toddy would be the man to talk to.

 

[daleyd]

Remember fusion DOES work. It is not pie in the sky.

Literally no one has said it “doesn’t work”. What no one has done is to reliably recreate this for any meaningful length of time to produce something useful on earth.

 

[fizzy]

The problem is fusion bombs work nothing like a workable controlled process for producing energy. It’s literally the opposite of what’s needed…

Indeed so! But I am certain there is a way. With the amount of money pouring in now hopefully someone will crack it sooner or later.

 

[fizzy]

Literally no one has said it “doesn’t work”. What no one has done is to reliably recreate this for any meaningful length of time to produce something useful on earth.

All it needs is a humungous beam engine

 

[daleyd]

All it needs is a humungous beam engine

I have to admire your optimism

 

[500e]

The only thing that pushed fission was a war.
Up till then it was not viable
The amount of money that has gone into fission is mind boggling.
And still more into coping with the residual fuel & plant, this appears to be a never ending cost both in money and long term danger.
If that had been put into fusion we might be using it.
We have a member that is working with the UK Tormak, they have had some small success, but I expect like @Kayos he is not allowed to say much, if we as a country can produce a pilot plant the world will want it.

 

[daleyd]

The only thing that pushed fission was a war.
Up till then it was not viable
The amount of money that has gone into fission is mind boggling.
And still more into coping with the residual fuel & plant, this appears to be a never ending cost both in money and long term danger.
If that had been put into fusion we might be using it.
We have a member that is working with the UK Tormak, they have had some small success, but I expect like @Kayos he is not allowed to say much, if we as a country can produce a pilot plant the world will want it.

We might also be little further forward and not have had the decades of power provided by fission?

Don’t get me wrong I think we should continue funding and research but it seems tantalisingly out of reach…I really hope not but there does appear to be some huge hurdles to overcome to make it viable.

 

[DAPPH]

I've decided we should construct thousands of massive 200 person power generating tread mills near to jails . Only give the prisoners food and water after a six hour shift that generates a set amount of KWHR @ 240 volts , pop them in incontinence pads if needs be . Six six hours shifts every seven days , no holiday's or time off unless out put exceeds the required rate by 35 %

That solves two probs at once ....plenty of power 24/7 and it stops idle minds & hands from doing the devils work

 

[mike os]

Fusion, the modern version of alchemy… by and large perused for the same reason

It’s been 20 years away all my life

 

[fizzy]

Fusion, the modern version of alchemy… by and large perused for the same reason

It’s been 20 years away all my life

Remember Isaac Newton was an alchemist. He was way ahead of his time. He might not have turned lead into Gold but he made some amazing discoveries along the way!

 

[mike os]

Remember Isaac Newton was an alchemist. He was way ahead of his time. He might not have turned lead into Gold but he made some amazing discoveries along the way!

True enough but none of them fulfilled their primary aim … which I suspect will continue in this game … (I would love to be wrong however)

 

[500e]

Think they tried that last century

 

[Gareth J]

Humans are obsessed with transforming energy from one form to another.

 

[fizzy]

Humans are obsessed with transforming energy from one form to another.

Indeed so

 

[julianthegypsy]

I've decided we should construct thousands of massive 200 person power generating tread mills near to jails . Only give the prisoners food and water after a six hour shift that generates a set amount of KWHR @ 240 volts , pop them in incontinence pads if needs be . Six six hours shifts every seven days , no holiday's or time off unless out put exceeds the required rate by 35 %

That solves two probs at once ....plenty of power 24/7 and it stops idle minds & hands from doing the devils work

You've been watching too much Black Mirror!

 

[toddy]

well lets clear up a few points about fusion

fist of all there is 2 ideas for different power stations, first of would be self sustaining plasma, the second is a pulse type (so loads of small pulses, sub second)

the first type would be completed in a tokamak or a stellerator this is what JET, ITER and STEP are.
ITER is linked above and is a massive project with most of the world funding it.
STEP is the UK prototype power station that will be on the grid. it is expected to have power output in the 2040's
we currently run JET for 50-70s and produce fusion for just under 5 seconds where the 1980's magnets start to over heat
there has been a tokamak in china that has ran for over 17mins

then the second type would be completed in a mechanical or laser confinement system such as NIF, first light fusion etc
these use large pistons or lasers to compress a target to get it in implode and cause the atoms to fuse.
i am not following these are much, but apparently NIF has produced more energy than it used, but not by much.

and it is much about funding for the reason we have not cracked fusion, there is a lot of private companies now joining in and this has caused a lot more development to be completed in the last few years.

ohh and the waste - well most of the waste fuel will be reused as the waste will be put through a system that will remove the tritium as it is soooo expensive it is worth saving every gram. but due to using small atoms the half life is short (about 12years) means it will be at a safe level with in a short time compared to a fission plant. as well the radiation that comes from the reaction could be used to manufacture fuel for itself, so using most of the energy as possible.