Electronic components ID

[Paul in Wiltshire]

Yes, you got it.
I'm trying to replicate what Paul in Wiltshire has done, which is based on the circuit diagram i have posted. I do spot differences though.
Think chimp with a 6' adjustable doing electronics, thats me, but i'm willing to learn.

I've got 80% of the stuff ordered, thats a start, i could just do with @Paul in Wiltshire posting a front on shot and we'll be a bit closer!

I think the circuit diagram above assumes the suds motor is single phase, this one is 3 phase. So that could be a little hurdle.

I initially looked at that circuit, but did things slightly different. The circuit diagram uses 24V AC for control. I decided to go with 24V DC, as that is the control voltage of my Schneider VFD, and I intend to also use it to power LED lighting.

On the DIN rail I have (from left to right) :
1 Amp MCB for the power to the DRO and 24V DC powersupply.
16 Amp type C MCB feeding the inverter and suds pump
24V DC contactor, this isolates the supply to the inverter, suds pump and the 24V supply. This is latched from the 24V supply, with a reset button on the top of the lathe. If you hit the emergency stop, or there is a power cut, this contactor will unlatch. Meaning power is cut to the inverter and the control signal goes to 0V immediately, initiating a fast stop on the inverter. (As the inverter will continue for a few seconds after a power cut).
24V DC switching power supply, with its own protection. Provides the 24V for control of VFD and to energise the contactor. It will also power some LED tape I intend to fit.

Behind the Perspex cover is the original Klocker Moeller isolation switch, which cuts all power to the panel and stops you opening the door unless it is off.

The suds pump does not have a start capacitor or delay relay, all I have is the one old turquoise coloured capacitor to create the third phase for the suds pump.

The microswitches take a 24V DC supply via the brake switch and provide a forward/reverse signal to the VFD, hitting the brake will lead to a coast stop. The change gear cover microswitch provides 24V to one of the VFD inputs via a contactor terminal. If that is cut the VFD performs a fast stop. This all requires a bit of VFD programming to get the behaviour that you want.

 

[Paul in Wiltshire]

I am using the original suds pump switch, with just one run capacitor.

 

[Welderpaul]

Motor rebuilt with new bearings and cleaned out years of filth. Lashed up some wiring as a bench test and it runs fine. The motor gets warm though. After 10 mins the casing is getting worryingly warm.

Wrong capacitor?

 

[daedalusminos]

Last question, i promise. I've rewired the original worklight so its 240V and easy to wire into the main control box.
I was going to feed it from a breaker which i can add on the DIN rail. What size breaker - 5A?

Just a thought..I'm going to try and keep mine low voltage, the original transformer is 440V/25V, feed that with 220V and should get approx 12V out, and I believe 12V AC BC LED bulbs are available.

 

[Agroshield]

The motor gets warm though. After 10 mins the casing is getting worryingly warm.

Maybe try it pumping water around in a circle with the shaft and impeller well submerged. I think these rely a little bit for cooling on heat transfer into the liquid being pumped.

 

[Welderpaul]

Maybe try it pumping water around in a circle with the shaft and impeller well submerged. I think these rely a little bit for cooling on heat transfer into the liquid being pumped.

Tried this tonight and it doesn't make any difference, the motor is well above the wet end so there's little or no cooling effect.

I'm not sure if i should go higher or lower capacitance.

 

[Seadog]

Lower, around 4µF

 

[Welderpaul]

Right, sorry, me again, nearly there.

I need a little help in wiring the contactors, the rest is done, but this bit is puzzling. I get (I think) that the L and T terminals on the back section of the contactors are switched by the terminals on the front white section. T is incoming, L is outgoing?
I've had a stab at where i think the wires need terminating. Contactor 1 is on the left and Coontactor 4 is on the right.

Am i anywhere close?

All help gladly accepted to put me out of my misery.

 

[Welderpaul]

Bridge rectifier terminals.

Am I correct in saying 24v AC positive goes to +, 24v AC negative goes to - then the wibley wobbly lines are + and - 24v DC?

 

[daleyd]

Bridge rectifier terminals.

Am I correct in saying 24v AC positive goes to +, 24v AC negative goes to - then the wibley wobbly lines are + and - 24v DC?
View attachment 224285

Other way round - the wiggly lines are ac (doesn’t matter which way round) and the + - are dc

 

[daleyd]

Right, sorry, me again, nearly there.

I need a little help in wiring the contactors, the rest is done, but this bit is puzzling. I get (I think) that the L and T terminals on the back section of the contactors are switched by the terminals on the front white section. T is incoming, L is outgoing?
I've had a stab at where i think the wires need terminating. Contactor 1 is on the left and Coontactor 4 is on the right.

Am i anywhere close?

All help gladly accepted to put me out of my misery.


View attachment 224278 View attachment 224279 View attachment 224280 View attachment 224281

Normal convention is that L terminals are incoming and T is out going. The coil of the contactor is as you rightly said the A1(+ 24 v) and A2(-24v) terminals on the front.

 

[Welderpaul]

Normal convention is that L terminals are incoming and T is out going. The coil of the contactor is as you rightly said the A1(+ 24 v) and A2(-24v) terminals on the front.

Ta, do you reckon i am right with where i am planning to wire the contactors?

 

[daleyd]

Ta, do you reckon i am right with where i am planning to wire the contactors?

It was hard to say as it wasn't the full drawing (And I was on my phone at the time ) but looking at it now on a PC I'd say for contactor 4 the left hand connections should be the "L" terminals and the right hand ones "T" (Left hand being "Incoming" or supply side, right hand going out to the components).

Contactor 1 again is reversed - "L" at bottom and "T" at top - though it's probably worth redrawing the circuit just to make sure your DC supply is correct, the original being 24 AC means it didn't particularly matter which wire went to which end of coil, whereas with DC it does. (Note in general it will work just fine the way you have it, it's purely a convention thing that incoming goes to L)

 

[Welderpaul]

It was hard to say as it wasn't the full drawing (And I was on my phone at the time ) but looking at it now on a PC I'd say for contactor 4 the left hand connections should be the "L" terminals and the right hand ones "T" (Left hand being "Incoming" or supply side, right hand going out to the components).

Contactor 1 again is reversed - "L" at bottom and "T" at top - though it's probably worth redrawing the circuit just to make sure your DC supply is correct, the original being 24 AC means it didn't particularly matter which wire went to which end of coil, whereas with DC it does. (Note in general it will work just fine the way you have it, it's purely a convention thing that incoming goes to L)

Needs some tidying, and some is only temporary, but its all in. Spot any mistakes?
Didn't dare switch it on yet....
One thing that did pop up when wiring, where the red circle is positioned below, the 24V control circuit voltage is linked with the 240V. Is this correct? Its is the same on the other contactor too.

 

[RichardM]

"One thing that did pop up when wiring, where the red circle is positioned below, the 24V control circuit voltage is linked with the 240V. Is this correct? Its is the same on the other contactor too."
@Welderpaul
I would not expect 24vdc to attach to 240vac. Post the full wiring diagram. What are L1 feeding? If you are replicating the diagram in #1 look at the 24vac side, your 24vdc needs to replicate that.

 

[Seadog]

Are you not just using a pair of contacts to latch the 24V feed to the coil? It's not very clear from either the photo or the snippet of circuit. You will definitely not want any direct connection between 24DC and Mains

 

[Welderpaul]

This is the full diagram. Glad I asked

 

[Seadog]

As I expected, the 24v ac, not dc, is fed through a contact pair that has the Run switch in parallel. Momentarily closing the run switch powers the contactor coil in 4 which pulls in and closes the pair of contacts that then keep power applied to that coil.

 

[RichardM]

What are your L1 and T1 feeding from and to, they should be from the rectifier and to the start / stop switches. Can you tag your DC wires red and black to differentiate?

 

[Seadog]

It's AC, there is no rectifier.