Biogas Resources

[Popcorn]

Well a mate of mine that runs a Caravan Site where everything is powered by pellets, get his from USA/Canada.

Yes the one oilfield is still pumping away just outside Gainsborough and Lincolnshire County Council still won't give planning for anymore,
despite the loads of applications been put in.

 

[gaz1]

Yes the one oilfield is still pumping away just outside Gainsborough and Lincolnshire County Council still won't give planning for anymore,
despite the loads of applications been put in.

if it was on your doorstep would you except it ?

its the same with fracking why should others have to put up with it to serve you

its not your house your losing or the value of your house so why should you expect others to except what they dont want and gripe about it

 

[Farside]

Was reading something a couple of days ago that there has been a big safety problem even with smallish systems
Think a couple of large ones told improve or shut, may have been in the Times think there was an accident that started the purge

If my bio-kharzi exploded it would cause a purge, yes.

 

[Popcorn]

if it was on your doorstep would you except it ?

its the same with fracking why should others have to put up with it to serve you

its not your house your losing or the value of your house so why should you expect others to except what they dont want and gripe about it

The proposed site is on farmland and not near any houses yet, so no I wouldn't have a problem living as near to it as you can now.........

 

[Onoff]

Some light reading:

 

[Seadog]

Already mentioned, I think, but it just popped up on a FB group that I'm in:

The last remaining streetlight that's powered by the farts of Londoners. Something to get gassed about!
If you wander off The Strand and round the corner from the Savoy hotel, you'll find a modest looking street lamp that most Londoners would turn their nose up at. But this is no ordinary street light. This is a gas lamp with a distink-ed difference.
The last left of its kind in London, the Webbs Patent Sewer Gas Destructor (yes, that's actually what it's called) runs off the excess methane fumes from our sewers. In other words, it runs on poo. And it's not far from the Thames.....
This is actually an example of ingenious Victorian engineering. The 19th century inventor Joseph Webb came up with the lamp as a solution to London's foul-smelling sewer problem. In the mid-1800s an underground network of sewers was built to carry waste into a lower-level sewer below Embankment, and then eastward to the Thames Estuary.
To look at it you wouldn't guess that sewage gas keeps that light burning. But old sewers still experienced a build up of flammable methane gas that made the chance of explosion pretty high. We wouldn't want to be there when that stink bomb went off.
At first, they just poked holes into the sewers and inserted free standing vent pipes to allow the gases to waft over the heads and houses of London as part of a solution that probably killed off a flying pigeon or two. Realising that some of the nearby houses were built too high to avoid the rancid route of drifting methane, Londoners needed another solution.
If this street light goes off you know there's about to be an unpleasant waft. In the 1890's, Webb came up with his poop-powered design. Installing street lamps where the vents had been, gas travelled up the post to the burner at the top and was consumed by a flame, both destroying the dangerous methane and lighting the street at the same time.
Webb's intention was that the the lamp be fuelled solely by gas, but in practice the methane was not enough to keep in running 24 hours a day. When the flame went out the gases would seep out of the lamp and grace passers-by with the delectable aroma of their neighbour's toilet waste.
Webb went back to the drawing board and designed a new lamp that kept the flame alight with ordinary gas, but also burnt the methane fumes from the sewers alongside the conventional fuel. It was such an elegant solution that sewer gas destructor lamps started popping up all over the UK.
Do guests of the Savoy know they're just round the corner from the gas destructor? Although this is the last one left in the city, others around the country still exist and some are still working. Webb's odour-fighting operation was discontinued when modern-day plumbing provided new solutions for getting rid of methane.
One gas destructor lamp was left intact on Carting Lane, a street that practically begs for the irresistible nickname of 'Farting Lane'. The original destroyer was hit by a reversing lorry several years ago, but it has been restored and marked with a plaque thats reads: "This cast iron ornamental lamp standard with original lantern continues to burn off residual biogas."

 

[Popcorn]

Was in Nellies in Beverley the other day and there still using gas lighting

White Horse Inn

Pub in Beverley

website-548328973905253391471-pub.business.site

 

[Fraserb]

We have plenty of slurry from the cows and an ad plant has been looked at in the past but it's not something I know much about. What I do know from the local setup is the diet for the digester is almost more fussy than a real cows diet.

 

[Onoff]

We have plenty of slurry from the cows and an ad plant has been looked at in the past but it's not something I know much about. What I do know from the local setup is the diet for the digester is almost more fussy than a real cows diet.

Just back from the pub for a medicinal / consoling Guinness. Got talking about energy prices and that lead to biogas.

Turns out there's a local big farm that operates a biogas generator. They have cattle but have to buy in "green stuff" to feed it as well.

Happy to pm you their details if you want to pick their brains.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

That roof looks pretty 'ripe'.

 

[James1979]

Already mentioned, I think, but it just popped up on a FB group that I'm in:

The last remaining streetlight that's powered by the farts of Londoners. Something to get gassed about!
If you wander off The Strand and round the corner from the Savoy hotel, you'll find a modest looking street lamp that most Londoners would turn their nose up at. But this is no ordinary street light. This is a gas lamp with a distink-ed difference.
The last left of its kind in London, the Webbs Patent Sewer Gas Destructor (yes, that's actually what it's called) runs off the excess methane fumes from our sewers. In other words, it runs on poo. And it's not far from the Thames.....
This is actually an example of ingenious Victorian engineering. The 19th century inventor Joseph Webb came up with the lamp as a solution to London's foul-smelling sewer problem. In the mid-1800s an underground network of sewers was built to carry waste into a lower-level sewer below Embankment, and then eastward to the Thames Estuary.
To look at it you wouldn't guess that sewage gas keeps that light burning. But old sewers still experienced a build up of flammable methane gas that made the chance of explosion pretty high. We wouldn't want to be there when that stink bomb went off.
At first, they just poked holes into the sewers and inserted free standing vent pipes to allow the gases to waft over the heads and houses of London as part of a solution that probably killed off a flying pigeon or two. Realising that some of the nearby houses were built too high to avoid the rancid route of drifting methane, Londoners needed another solution.
If this street light goes off you know there's about to be an unpleasant waft. In the 1890's, Webb came up with his poop-powered design. Installing street lamps where the vents had been, gas travelled up the post to the burner at the top and was consumed by a flame, both destroying the dangerous methane and lighting the street at the same time.
Webb's intention was that the the lamp be fuelled solely by gas, but in practice the methane was not enough to keep in running 24 hours a day. When the flame went out the gases would seep out of the lamp and grace passers-by with the delectable aroma of their neighbour's toilet waste.
Webb went back to the drawing board and designed a new lamp that kept the flame alight with ordinary gas, but also burnt the methane fumes from the sewers alongside the conventional fuel. It was such an elegant solution that sewer gas destructor lamps started popping up all over the UK.
Do guests of the Savoy know they're just round the corner from the gas destructor? Although this is the last one left in the city, others around the country still exist and some are still working. Webb's odour-fighting operation was discontinued when modern-day plumbing provided new solutions for getting rid of methane.
One gas destructor lamp was left intact on Carting Lane, a street that practically begs for the irresistible nickname of 'Farting Lane'. The original destroyer was hit by a reversing lorry several years ago, but it has been restored and marked with a plaque thats reads: "This cast iron ornamental lamp standard with original lantern continues to burn off residual biogas."

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Another fun fact about the Savoy - it’s the only road in the UK where traffic legally has to drive on the right.

I’ll get my anorak

 

[timgunn1962]

Some numbers on the gas: Anaerobic Biogas is usually a mixture of Methane and Carbon Dioxide with a CH4:CO2 ratio somewhere between 1:1 and 2:1 by volume. The Methane is the stuff with the usable energy content and it's Low Heat Value is around 38 MJ/cubic metre. Realistically, you can regard this as 5 kWhr/m3 (which would be 36 MJ/m3) for the Methane content: You'd be doing really well to measure both the flowrate and the Methane content with a combined error significantly less than the 6% difference between 36 and 38 MJ/m3.

If you have 60% CH4 by volume, your Biogas will have an energy content of around 6 kWhr/m3. That's pretty useful for direct heating: a boiler or for cooking, for example, but doesn't help much if you need electricity. You can run Spark-Ignition Internal Combustion Engines on Biogas. The carburettor system (fuel/air mixer) usually needs to be more complex than that used to run a S.I. I.C.E. on a "known" gaseous fuel (Propane or Natural Gas) because the composition of Biogas is usually variable to some degree. Industrial Biogas generators in the 1MW range are typically capable of an electrical efficiency approaching 40% at full load, but this reduces as the load reduces and even the peak efficiency will be way down for small sets of the size appropriate for single dwellings. Just running a small generator, with no electricity storage batteries, I'd be quite impressed by an electrical efficiency of 25%. If the generator can be kept at, or near, it's full load, an electrical efficiency of 30% or maybe a little more might be realistic.

Using the waste heat from the generator will typically provide a usable heat output of between 1 and 2 times the electrical output, with the wide range largely being down to the grade of heat required. Jacket water can usually provide around 80 degC, while Exhaust heat can get the temperature up a bit higher.

Back in the early 1990s, I was involved in running some small generators on landfill gas. We ran a 35 kwE Deutz air-cooled generator, a similar-output Powertorque-modified 6-cylinder Ford (A Spark-Ignition-Converted, low-compression version of the Ford Cargo engine IIRC) and a Perkins 3008SI (a Spark-Ignition-converted Rolls-Royce Perkins V8 Condor engine). We stopped using them quite quickly when we started using MegaWatt-sized generators and exporting the power to the grid. I still work on the plant that collects the landfill gas and feeds it to the big generators. We have a site with Anaerobic Digesters dealing with food waste and a couple of sites with Anaerobic Digesters that deal with the Organic component of sorted domestic waste. The guys who do the generator maintenance on our sites get to deal with a fair few farm AD sites, though I don't personally.

 

[julianf]

Some numbers on the gas: Anaerobic Biogas is usually a mixture of Methane and Carbon Dioxide with a CH4:CO2 ratio somewhere between 1:1 and 2:1 by volume. The Methane is the stuff with the usable energy content and it's Low Heat Value is around 38 MJ/cubic metre. Realistically, you can regard this as 5 kWhr/m3 (which would be 36 MJ/m3) for the Methane content: You'd be doing really well to measure both the flowrate and the Methane content with a combined error significantly less than the 6% difference between 36 and 38 MJ/m3.

If you have 60% CH4 by volume, your Biogas will have an energy content of around 6 kWhr/m3. That's pretty useful for direct heating: a boiler or for cooking, for example, but doesn't help much if you need electricity. You can run Spark-Ignition Internal Combustion Engines on Biogas. The carburettor system (fuel/air mixer) usually needs to be more complex than that used to run a S.I. I.C.E. on a "known" gaseous fuel (Propane or Natural Gas) because the composition of Biogas is usually variable to some degree. Industrial Biogas generators in the 1MW range are typically capable of an electrical efficiency approaching 40% at full load, but this reduces as the load reduces and even the peak efficiency will be way down for small sets of the size appropriate for single dwellings. Just running a small generator, with no electricity storage batteries, I'd be quite impressed by an electrical efficiency of 25%. If the generator can be kept at, or near, it's full load, an electrical efficiency of 30% or maybe a little more might be realistic.

Using the waste heat from the generator will typically provide a usable heat output of between 1 and 2 times the electrical output, with the wide range largely being down to the grade of heat required. Jacket water can usually provide around 80 degC, while Exhaust heat can get the temperature up a bit higher.

Back in the early 1990s, I was involved in running some small generators on landfill gas. We ran a 35 kwE Deutz air-cooled generator, a similar-output Powertorque-modified 6-cylinder Ford (A Spark-Ignition-Converted, low-compression version of the Ford Cargo engine IIRC) and a Perkins 3008SI (a Spark-Ignition-converted Rolls-Royce Perkins V8 Condor engine). We stopped using them quite quickly when we started using MegaWatt-sized generators and exporting the power to the grid. I still work on the plant that collects the landfill gas and feeds it to the big generators. We have a site with Anaerobic Digesters dealing with food waste and a couple of sites with Anaerobic Digesters that deal with the Organic component of sorted domestic waste. The guys who do the generator maintenance on our sites get to deal with a fair few farm AD sites, though I don't personally.

Thank you for the interesting post.

 

[timgunn1962]

Apologies: it was late. That should be 10 kWhr/M3 for the energy content of the Methane.

We usually assume 50% Methane for landfill gas, which gives 5 kWhr/M3 of the landfill gas, and is probably the reason I didn't spot it sooner. Generating 1 MW of electricity needs a little over 500 M3/hr of gas at 50% Methane.

 

[Onoff]

Currently researching the subject:

Seems chicken manure/litter is better than cow manure. Just so happens the landlady has chickens!

 

[Onoff]

Up the pub last night and the landlady was saying about overheads, what with the cost of leccy etc. Still can't help thinking she's sitting on a resource with her Dexter herd that could provide gas for heating & also leccy via a gennie.

Looking at one of the videos @gaz1 put up I not them loading "feed" into a raised hopper via a forklift. From there it goes into a mixing tube to an underground tank.

I bet a sloping site could be put to use and let gravity do a lot of the work.

I may have to walk back up there in a minute to check if they've a hill!

It's the sort of thing that would be good for a local kid doing a uni course in sustainability.

 

[Fraserb]

Up the pub last night and the landlady was saying about overheads, what with the cost of leccy etc. Still can't help thinking she's sitting on a resource with her Dexter herd that could provide gas for heating & also leccy via a gennie.

Looking at one of the videos @gaz1 put up I not them loading "feed" into a raised hopper via a forklift. From there it goes into a mixing tube to an underground tank.

I bet a sloping site could be put to use and let gravity do a lot of the work.

I may have to walk back up there in a minute to check if they've a hill!

It's the sort of thing that would be good for a local kid doing a uni course in sustainability.

Even on a small scale a biogas plant is a lot of money to setup and run, consistent feedstock is important as well. You would need a serious slope for the feed to slide down into the digester, you'd then need a way to regulate it.

 

[Onoff]

Even on a small scale a biogas plant is a lot of money to setup and run, consistent feedstock is important as well. You would need a serious slope for the feed to slide down into the digester, you'd then need a way to regulate it.

As I've said before the Nepalese have such rudimentary biogas plants that provide all their household gas for lights and cooking. That's just with a few cows.

 

[gaz1]

Up the pub last night and the landlady was saying about overheads, what with the cost of leccy etc. Still can't help thinking she's sitting on a resource with her Dexter herd that could provide gas for heating & also leccy via a gennie.

Looking at one of the videos @gaz1 put up I not them loading "feed" into a raised hopper via a forklift. From there it goes into a mixing tube to an underground tank.

I bet a sloping site could be put to use and let gravity do a lot of the work.

I may have to walk back up there in a minute to check if they've a hill!

It's the sort of thing that would be good for a local kid doing a uni course in sustainability.

what you have to remember with biogas is what you put in you will get out

so say you have 10 in a herd then you will get 10 of crap out of the other end that needs drying and turned into fertilizer

lets say small scale 2hrs a day worth of cooking one hob burner veg

say 10 cows

take note of its sizing however no info is available

last video states 80 gallons ofmixed crap and water

though i prefer a solid build

im not allowed to post any more vids so it will have to be via pm only now

 

[Onoff]

so say you have 10 in a herd

60+ I think. Still calving now.