Anyone use WVO?

[Mee]

One problem that usually occurs is the delivery pump in the rotory type injector system can become weak, that can be cured by fitting an electric lift pump like a red top or some such, to boost pressure in the system they then run usually faultless.
in fact veg oil is better for the system than derv because all this talk of low sulfer diesel is just sales blurb for 'we are selling crap diesel that will wear your system out because of lack of lubricity'
the low sulfer is actually low OIL !!
In fact veg oil has more lubricity than straight derv

The major problem is that of rubber fuel pipes and various rubber seals can be seriously affected by veg oil and this caused them to deteriorate very quickly and create additional and often difficult to diagnose problems and people need to be aware of this, particularly if a rotted fuel line has been replaced with rubber, or the injection pump has been reconditioned by an aftermarket specialist who often use cheaper seals.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

The major problem is that of rubber fuel pipes and various rubber seals can be seriously affected by veg oil and this caused them to deteriorate very quickly and create additional and often difficult to diagnose problems and people need to be aware of this, particularly if a rotted fuel line has been replaced with rubber, or the injection pump has been reconditioned by an aftermarket specialist who often use cheaper seals.

As off January 1st 1995 all manufacture after this date are required to ensure their fuel system are capable of handling Bio fuel, fuels from alternative sources. This is to allow the growth and development green fuels.

In Europe, this was complied with, but as the models under went a face lift. This allowed them to fit the new standard parts as their suppliers came on line.

VAG and merc got a "delayed action" to allow them not to suffer "significant financial cost" due to the large amount of stock.

In The Americas and a lot of other places in the world Bio fuels are well ahead of Europe.

What can do damage to fuel system is the alcohol what can be added to increase the octane rating can degrade them.

Oddly Rover engines were already using suitable seals, throw back to WW2 when we had to use different fuels.

 

[8ob]

Regarding the lack of lubricity in modern fuels, this was the case when low sulphur fuels were introduced but has since been rectified. A friend that repairs pumps said there was a 90% increase in pump failures when low sulphur was introduced , I for one was adding random amounts of oil to derv and rebated fuel to protect pumps but have since stopped. Interesting read , if your eyes glaze over go straight to 7. http://www.fuelexpert.co.za/2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-technical-study.php
The other thing not touched on here is viscosity , how does chip oil with a tad of white spirit/petrol or whatever fair up with modern diesels ? I would have thought modern pumps would need viscosity to be spot on.

Bob

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@8ob
The seals are a lot more tolerant now, they hand a lot more "additives"
Also the pumps move faster, but shift less volume of fluid. But the high speed makes up for the low volume.
The idea is that they maintain a positive permanent pressure in the injection system.

1st Jan 1994 they had to handle new generation fuels. The low sulphur fuels did cause a lot of pump and injector failures, some say it was the low sulphur, some say it was the news additives.

Al I did and will do again when I get back to Chip oil is fill the tank with 3/4 oil and add 1/4 tank of normal diesiel.
Always did me well.

The only issue we had was with a friends Merc Vitto and the seals on the injector pump needed to be changed. Merc have "Green fuel" pumps on the books.

Did have a odd thing with a Astra, were we lost 2 injector fuel return rubber pipes, but they may of bean past their use by date anyway.

 

[bigegg]

I could be wrong, because i cant find the article/forum post, but...
Older delica, as in the OP.
Its the same 2.5 diesel engine as a shogun/pajero.
Which is alleged to be able to run on straight veg oil.
Some imports (which a delica would be) have a fuel heater from the factory, because of the colder weather in japan, so wouldnt need anything adding all year round in lowland uk.
So the only cost would be time + cost of waste oil (10/15p a litre).
A filtering/settling tank would be easy to fabricate from a 47kg gas bottle/200l drum or an ibc - or a septic tank?

 

[123hotchef]

I could be wrong, because i cant find the article/forum post, but...
Older delica, as in the OP.
Its the same 2.5 diesel engine as a shogun/pajero.
Which is alleged to be able to run on straight veg oil.
Some imports (which a delica would be) have a fuel heater from the factory, because of the colder weather in japan, so wouldnt need anything adding all year round in lowland uk.
So the only cost would be time + cost of waste oil (10/15p a litre).
A filtering/settling tank would be easy to fabricate from a 47kg gas bottle/200l drum or an ibc - or a septic tank?

same as my L200 and yes it will run on SVO

 

[normspanners]

Most diesel has a percentage of bio in it by law hence the required change to seals etc

 

[123hotchef]

up to 10 or 15% now days

 

[normspanners]

Some imports (which a delica would be) have a fuel heater from the factory, because of the colder weather in japan, so wouldnt need anything adding all year round in lowland uk.

import delicas dont have fuel heaters, I never had a lot of luck with svo in mine was always a little sluggish and the pump didnt like it either, causing the transfer pump issues but a diesel mix was fine.

 

[123hotchef]

twin tank is the best with a heat exhanger

 

[normspanners]

Funnily enough nowadays most diesel vehicles are fitted with fuel coolers !!
regarding fuel consumption mine was never very good cant give figures for the fact of using veg
but once did a trip to Brixham from northwales with a trailer on the way down,it used more than a full tank had to stop and put a can in to get there, mind was driving like a t-at. I loaded two quads and set off back after putting the rest of the cans I had taken in , nowhere near a full tank, then drove again like a t-at (coz I wanted to get back) till bristol signs loomed up, looked at the gauge oh flip!! down to 1/4 !!
so decided to back off---- A LOT ----coz at the time on the motorways it was 1.80 ish ltr and was determined not to buy on the motorway rip offs and drove back, tailgating trucks etc who where great BTW and they pulled me along on the m5 and m6 I decided to take the shortish route and come off on A500 where I knew there was a24hrs station ----- wrong------ closed for refurb now 3-4 am also thick fog and so i drove in 5th at 30 mph to tarvin nr chester !! didnt dare to stop to even let the dogs out. I had to shake the car by wobbling the steering I pulled into the station and it cut out!! so managed to get from bristol to chester 170mls ish on 1/4 TANK

So the delica could be fantastic on fuel if driven steady but no fun to drive.

 

[Mee]

As off January 1st 1995 all manufacture after this date are required to ensure their fuel system are capable of handling Bio fuel, fuels from alternative sources. This is to allow the growth and development green fuels.

In Europe, this was complied with, but as the models under went a face lift. This allowed them to fit the new standard parts as their suppliers came on line.

VAG and merc got a "delayed action" to allow them not to suffer "significant financial cost" due to the large amount of stock.

In The Americas and a lot of other places in the world Bio fuels are well ahead of Europe.

What can do damage to fuel system is the alcohol what can be added to increase the octane rating can degrade them.

Oddly Rover engines were already using suitable seals, throw back to WW2 when we had to use different fuels.

Everyone seems to be slightly at cross purposes with some talking about WVO and other about transesterificated oil as transesterificated oils are the ones added to diesel for use in cars, here there seems a little confusion. No alcohol is added to the fuel as it is used as part of the process of breaking down the fatty esters in the WVO during the transesterification process and then removed either by evaporation in commercial processing or generally during the dewatering process for domestic operations.

 

[Mee]

Most diesel has a percentage of bio in it by law hence the required change to seals etc

up to 10 or 15% now days

Actually its around 3% as transesterified veg oils are expensive to produce and 3% is the minimum amount they can get away with legally so its actually slightly higher than 3%.
You can get transesterified veg oils at 100% as some eco fuel oil suppliers will only supply 100% diesel refined from veg oils and if you have a local supplier you can buy it and run your vehicle on it but this is where some confusion arises.

Many vehicles use generic engines, some generic engines are sold to other manufacturers and used in another manufacturers vehicle range and if you read their literature you see they have differing quantities by percentage of bio element they recommend as the maximum percentage of bio element they allow you to run.

 

[normspanners]

most bio still comes from basic wvo though
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/567173/rtfo-year-9-report-1.pdf

 

[Mee]

most bio still comes from basic wvo though

Yes it does as money is involved again, turning various waste into a usable commodity attracts huge subsidies in one or another form, and of course the original intention of bio fuels were to take this waste product which is expensive to dispose of as another form of recycling.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

There is no government money being fed into bio fuels or WHO. The last government helped stopped in 2014. As it had to pay out on applied grants.

Waste oil, cooking fats and oils were not expensive to recycle as in the UK they were brunt in power stations. Portsmouth Dock yard was doing that as far back as the 1970's.
How do I know, I was on "jankers" and had to collect the stuff and hand pump it blending tanks.

Then as the "Green Vote" gained in popularity The big Fuel companies jumped onto the band waggon, seizing the fact the could claim to be "Doing there bit"
Now The diesel you see at the pumps is up to 20% waste recycled fuel oil.

Now if you are using waste cooking oil you can add alcohol to get the correct "octane" or burn rate. Methanol or Ethanol being the common ones. Can be home made using woody green garden waste and ran through a reflux still. Not taxed.

Even modern fuels have a degree of alcohol added. More in recent years.
Oh how do you think Ethanol fuel cars worked? No manufacture would make 1 fuel system for normal fuel and one for "Green Fuels"

Even The methane fuel cars, the methane is treated with a High volatile alcohol to make a constant blend.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Oh yes, The "Add Blue stuff added to HGV's is uric acid.
Yes they are not taking the ****, they are adding it.

 

[Mee]

No, it wasn't stopped as it was renamed and now takes a different route through general recycling or local council initiatives and is just better hidden.

The fuel companies never jumped on the bandwagon as they were forced to add bio element by legislation as they wouldn't add any additional expense to their product if they don't have to.

Now you are moving away from the issue as you can add alcohol to any fuel, you can even use neat alcohol aka top fuelled dragsters, alcohol is used in the transesterification process to break down the fatty esters which was very clearly made, and as for methane powered cars, what have they got to do with WVO fuels.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

It was stopped 1st April 2014. If your application, big or small was submitted prior to the end date it had to be applied.
No new applications were accepted after that date. The same happened to solar panels.

The big fuel companies did not get forced.
They add it as it makes them look good, they get more "Fuel to sell for bigger profits.

The only grants the fuel companies now get is to find new sources of Bio fuels, hence why shell are investing in sugar cane.
The green waste materials being used to make an alcohol based fuel.
Honda are doing similar for the waste from rice.

now takes a different route through general recycling or local council initiatives
is uk based not international. So is completely different.

 

[cliff366]

Yep I do have done for 10y now I've never found anywhere that don't want to sell it tbh
all you have to do is make sure your pricing above the oil supplier

make sure you collect when you say you are svo is a lot easier tho as you just fill up without the settling filtering rubbish