A surprising cost comparison - ICE / EV

[atomant48]

Had you removed your foot from the ’go pedal’ slightly, you may well have had more than sufficient charge to get home? Five or ten miles an hour slower would likely have easily extended that indicated range by 20%? Used the ‘eco’ setting for the drive selection? Turned off some of the ancillaries? A longer time driving, but that would be offset by not needing time to charge?

Do tell us more, rather than just the ‘headline’ comments.

You should have stopped in - I’m just down the road from amesbury. Glad you found the chargers at costa / McDonald’s. The Tesla network is more than “exclusive” - its bloody clever. Each car is recognised by the network so there’s no need for payment / data entry at the “pump”. You simply arrive plug in and charge. Why the other networks haven’t done something similar I have no idea. There’s a few things in the Tesla that could be really usefully transferred to all vehicles but that’s topicnof another thread ….

As for turning off ancillaries etc - that’s a misunderstanding of EVs. To put that into perspective my kids will sometimes watch a movie on Netflix in the driveway - surround sound and a cup holder for each seat. They love it ! But having the movie, heating and all the associated bits on will typically drain the battery 1% over the 2 hours. It’s just so insignificant compared to driving the wheels.

As for driving - my usage drops about 10% if I drop from 70 to 60mph - it’s a saving but likely used up quickly if stuck in stop start traffic. And the A303 can be very stop stop start stop !!! Being stuck in a jam with low battery would really worry me …. And I don’t get range anxiety !!

 

[Edward Teach]

Holidays aren't much fun if you just drive everywhere without stopping to experience the places you pass through. I see plenty of that here, folk who "do" the spinal route in a couple of days taking up ferry spaces needed by locals all to be able to tick a virtual box, never taking the time to actually slow down and enjoy the location.

But that is only what you want to do on your holiday
My holiday is to ride the roads there and back,
Each to there own

 

[Kayos]

I'm new to all this but local to me is a new installation of 150kw chargers, I'm guessing they will be universal type and quite sizeable?

 

[atomant48]

I'm new to all this but local to me is a new installation of 150kw chargers, I'm guessing they will be universal type and quite sizeable?

At 150kW they’ll be the DCS (I think it’s called !!) - AC and DC at the same time is my understanding. As above you can use anything but for the non - Tesla network you’ll need to pay at the pump - via app/ card or whatever and my understanding is that is where a lot of the issues are. The price seems to vary alot more than Tesla which is relatively flat as well. But a great option to have nearby !

 

[willie.macleod]

I'm new to all this but local to me is a new installation of 150kw chargers, I'm guessing they will be universal type and quite sizeable?

They'll certainly have CCS plugs which will work with a Tesla, hopefully some will be dual headed and have the older CHAdeMO plugs as well (the Betamax of EV connectors). 150kW units will be DC.

 

[Kayos]

They'll certainly have CCS plugs which will work with a Tesla, hopefully some will be dual headed and have the older CHAdeMO plugs as well (the Betamax of EV connectors). 150kW units will be DC.

All the advertising makes a big thing about the 150kw

It's in a petrol station and has effectively doubled in size

 

[jmp49]

I will give a different perspective here. I am a petrolhead and I didn't take this route for eco credentials, but we decided to get a EV for my wife's car because of the economy, and because short trips on school runs etc were not long enough to get the engines properly warm although I live somewhere really rural, so "short trips" are anything under 15km. So we hired some cheaper ev's over a month with a view to doing this, Renault Zoe, Seat Mii etc. The Zoe didn't quite have the range needed to make it practical but the mii did.

So we traded our old diesel people carrier that was at the end of its life (400,000km from new 1 owner, but 2004 & getting tired with me having to repair/refurbish but all the plastic parts were breaking each time it was worked on and value less than 1000e) for a Seat MII and kept our much newer diesel Clio 1.5tdci for a second car. The Mii is a rebadged VW E-up. We bought the demonstrator from the local dealership which had 300km on it and every option available it seems as demonstraters tend to have... 250 of those km we put there in a week test driving it, and with gov eco bonus, hefty demonstrator discount, discount for paying in full with no finance, discount as it had been discontinued the month before etc, we paid around 10k for it, we were looking at wall boxes etc and their costs are subsidised also but I'm capable of doing the install myself, but it charges overnight from a normal 16a exterior socket in our yard so we haven't bothered as we just put it on charge in its parking spot when we get in. When its parked on charge, you can also set the car to by timer pre-heat the cabin, clear the windows etc while its still on "shore" power not batteries and this is great in winter, no more de-icing or scraping and warm interior so just need to keep the heated seats on for the drive mostly. And I dont see my wife trying to get away with driving off with just a patch cleared to peer through like she did when she had to scrape it while waiting for the clio to generate enough heat to demist.

A year on, it has 20k on the odometer, it has a effective range of about 200km, so we can do shopping trips to the "local" large towns of about 90km each way. A couple of times we have gone further afield and had to charge up in macdonalds or supermarket car parks etc just to top off to make sure we can get home with no anxiety but no real hardship, although its possible to reduce your speed from a usual 130km (80mph) on the autoroute and pick up much more range and turn up the regen on A roads etc which Ive done once after making a longish trip then driving all over town to different shops without recharging. Rapid chargers when out and about are hit and miss, and at the services they are incredibly expensive. In towns it seems you need a different payment card for each area, half the time there's a card problem, or the chargers have other EV's occupying them already. Its best not to rely on them being available. If the journey is over 100km each way, we just take the clio or a different vehicle. Battery/efficiency drops off in very cold weather and we have to account for this. It has a battery guarantee for 10 years, as that's the main component that will write it off economically but I can see it becoming more awkward as range falls off to that 70 percent threshold that triggers a replacement pack. Its not a speed demon, Ive not had it above 90mph, but it does have a really nice amount of torque and it drives like a go kart in small lanes once you get the lane assist disabled etc (don't tell my mrs I abuse her car like this though...)
Our real world calculations show it costs about 1/5th the price per km of the 1.5 turbodiesel clio even without reduced servicing costs factored in, so that 20k has resulted in a considerable saving without all the fuel fluctations caused by recent global events. In fact the clio hardly gets used now.
So taking the clio numbers, it consumes 4.2 l/100 km or 69mpg if you prefer in 100% ideal driving conditions. In 20,000km it would consume 200*4.2l of fuel, or 840L. Today diesel is 1.69e / L, so thats 1400e. We've paid to recharge the car of course, about 280e in extra electricity. So owning and using this car has saved us minimum 900e in fuel alone, without taking in to account the depreciation when you drive a new car off the forecourt , this little EV is so much in demand secondhand as it became NLA while they were revamping the design, we could sell it for a profit on the original purchase price today. Service costs are much lower because of the EV drivetrain being simpler also but I haven't taken this into account. There's also the free EV parking a number of areas operate in paid car parks as incentives. And just simply having the option to park in those spaces when a car park is nearly at capacity.

So in summary that's my cost comparison. Seems a good saving so far & we had to buy a replacement vehicle anyway. I'd 100% be up for a diy classic vehicle ev conversion after owning this one.

 

[Revs1972]

What is the rate on the Tesla chargers ?
I paid 50p a kW/hr on the Instavolt .
On the Ionity and BP it’s only 26p using my BMW card which is quite a saving.
I mostly charge at home though as most journeys are a max of around 100 miles round trip.

Had you removed your foot from the ’go pedal’ slightly, you may well have had more than sufficient charge to get home? Five or ten miles an hour slower would likely have easily extended that indicated range by 20%?

I drove up in Eco Pro mode with pretty much everything bar cruise control switched off. Coming back in the dark, it was cold and mostly rainy , so I had the AC on to make sure my windows were clear ( see so many people with fogged up windows driving about) and i was comfortable. I lost around 0.2 miles/kWh so worth the trade off. Drive 5 or 10 miles slower ? Its not going to make 20% difference - although out of curiosity i will try it next time to see what difference it does make. I notice when I turn the AC off it gives me around 10-15 miles extra. But I didn't buy a "luxury" car to drive it like a pauper. I want the toys,, i want to drive at speed limits. I except that means I will need to top up the charge from time to time. What I need to do is put more thought into pre planning journeys. The main point was I prefer to top up at the start of the journey rather than worrying about whether I’m going to be able to charge at the end. That 20 min stop pretty much removed the potential of that. The other point was I see banks of superchargers that are pretty much empty ( whilst i am there - obviously they may be full at other times of the day) . I guess this is why Tesla were considering opening up to other users.

 

[atomant48]

What is the rate on the Tesla chargers ?
I paid 50p a kW/hr on the Instavolt .
On the Ionity and BP it’s only 26p using my BMW card

Typically 35p but one on Oxford I used was 37 from memory. I really don’t do enough miles for the cost to be a huge factor - but it is twice what I pay at home (unfortunately I didn’t get one of the “virtually free” overnight tariffs) so I try to charge at home as much as possible.

 

[brewdexta]

Just been looking if prices of electric 4 x4 utility vehicles are coming down in cost, similar to a John Deere Gator EV but 4 x 4 and stumbled on this, This is not what I was looking for but still interesting

Home | Munro Vehicles

Decarbonise your 4x4 fleet with the fully electric Munro Series-M.

www.munro-ev.com

Its based on an Ibex F8, but its going to cost around 50K.....

 

[zx9]

Just been looking if prices of electric 4 x4 utility vehicles are coming down in cost, similar to a John Deere Gator EV but 4 x 4 and stumbled on this, This is not what I was looking for but still interesting

Home | Munro Vehicles

Decarbonise your 4x4 fleet with the fully electric Munro Series-M.

www.munro-ev.com

Its based on an Ibex F8, but its going to cost around 50K.....

That should cope with the kerbs on the Kings Road.

 

[mike os]

Had you removed your foot from the ’go pedal’ slightly, you may well have had more than sufficient charge to get home? Five or ten miles an hour slower would likely have easily extended that indicated range by 20%? Used the ‘eco’ setting for the drive selection? Turned off some of the ancillaries? A longer time driving, but that would be offset by not needing time to charge?

Do tell us more, rather than just the ‘headline’ comments.

So basically the you are saying have a nice ice or a nice ev that you can't use half the stuff you bought with it? ... ev still being presented as you can have one if you don't mind bring f*****D about all the time

 

[Kayos]

Just ordered a VW ID.4, the Audi Q4 had a 12 month lead time so was not an option

Cant wait if I'm honest

 

[Ruffian]

Would be interested In a vw I'd buzz van.
Because the range is getting better and better.

 

[daleyd]

Just ordered a VW ID.4, the Audi Q4 had a 12 month lead time so was not an option

Cant wait if I'm honest

We’ve had ours over a month now, it’s a great car. Very refined to drive, ours is the complete basic spec and it’s got loads of kit on it, spacious interior and boot etc. Charging at home is very easy too - I’d assumed it would be a bit of a bind but takes literally seconds.

We’ve just signed up to octopus energy and their go tariff will give us 4 hours a night at 7.5 p per kWh

 

[Kayos]

We’ve had ours over a month now, it’s a great car. Very refined to drive, ours is the complete basic spec and it’s got loads of kit on it, spacious interior and boot etc. Charging at home is very easy too - I’d assumed it would be a bit of a bind but takes literally seconds.

We’ve just signed up to octopus energy and their go tariff will give us 4 hours a night at 7.5 p per kWh

I went for the basic battery and motor, Pure spec so a few extra toys, I also added the heat pump (couldn't not really, could I?) And a folding towbar for the bike rack

Moonstone Grey, and for the first time in my life I didn't tick the sports or sports plus options.......

 

[pressbrake1]

Had you removed your foot from the ’go pedal’ slightly, you may well have had more than sufficient charge to get home? Five or ten miles an hour slower would likely have easily extended that indicated range by 20%? Used the ‘eco’ setting for the drive selection? Turned off some of the ancillaries? A longer time driving, but that would be offset by not needing time to charge?

Do tell us more, rather than just the ‘headline’ comments.

Your passive aggressive reply is insinuating he posted a anti ev post!

Just a real concern about running low on power and as we know with U.K. roads deadlock traffic and ridiculous diversions are highly likely.
You certainly wouldn’t drive any vehicle low on range especially a ev because you’re not walking to a fuel station with a can!

EV are politically correct hence your anger at any questioning of them but discussion of pros and cons is highly sensible.

If I could afford it I’d have one, a low power high light efficiency vehicle and I’d charge with solar when possible to get the maximum environmental protection

 

[daleyd]

I went for the basic battery and motor, Pure spec so a few extra toys, I also added the heat pump (couldn't not really, could I?) And a folding towbar for the bike rack

Moonstone Grey, and for the first time in my life I didn't tick the sports or sports plus options.......

Same as ours, we got moonstone grey with 52 kWh battery - on paper it’s slower than the car it’s replacing (2.0 tdi Tiguan with a Dsg gearbox) but it feels much faster.

We didn’t get any extras with ours just the basic spec but it doesn’t feel like anything was missing. It’s a first for me having dynamic cruise control, it’s a bit odd following the car in front and not having to touch any pedals to stop!!

We were a bit hesitant to go with the smaller battery but for our (my wife’s really) use it’s really no bother at all. In normal use charging twice a week is more than enough for us, though plugging it in every night is really no chore if required.

 

[Kayos]

Same as ours, we got moonstone grey with 52 kWh battery - on paper it’s slower than the car it’s replacing (2.0 tdi Tiguan with a Dsg gearbox) but it feels much faster.

We didn’t get any extras with ours just the basic spec but it doesn’t feel like anything was missing. It’s a first for me having dynamic cruise control, it’s a bit odd following the car in front and not having to touch any pedals to stop!!

We were a bit hesitant to go with the smaller battery but for our (my wife’s really) use it’s really no bother at all. In normal use charging twice a week is more than enough for us, though plugging it in every night is really no chore if required.

The std battery will do my regular longest round trip, but the bigger one will not do my longer journeys so wouldn't of been a benefit

The Golf I am in now has adaptive cruise, In a manual it has limitations but I imagine it's much better in the electric

Wife has been told her car is off the drive once it arrives, work will pay the install cost of a charger and I'm looking at Octopus for cheaper charging

 

[willie.macleod]

Just been looking if prices of electric 4 x4 utility vehicles are coming down in cost, similar to a John Deere Gator EV but 4 x 4 and stumbled on this, This is not what I was looking for but still interesting

Home | Munro Vehicles

Decarbonise your 4x4 fleet with the fully electric Munro Series-M.

www.munro-ev.com

Its based on an Ibex F8, but its going to cost around 50K.....

It looks interesting, but the projected price is £65k+ vat - for a hand-built electric vehicle with a 75kWh pack I am surprised there isn't a extra digit preceding the 65. If they can sell them at £65k and make a profit then they will have no end of customers.