A surprising cost comparison - ICE / EV

[atomant48]

There is a village near by with a farmer which runs holiday villas

Had 2 family's come down from London with teslas, the grid in remote locations wouldn't charge them. And to recharge them on the 13amp sockets wouldn't recharge in suitable time frame.

I had exactly this situation a fortnight ago when we drove up to the family farm in Yorkshire. So we stopped for a supercharge just before turning off the M6 and then only needed to top up at the farm ….

 

[Ruffian]

I had exactly this situation a fortnight ago when we drove up to the family farm in Yorkshire. So we stopped for a supercharge just before turning off the M6 and then only needed to top up at the farm ….

Yep agreed, and would work great but does mean that your driving point to point trying to preplanned your journeys.

I am not arguing the fact its coming,
And I welcome it as I love fast cars,

But needs to be more charge points or faster charging. Don't get me wrong I go to farms and most are now on 200amps per phase 3ph incomers.
If they all had supercharging points I would be laughing, but at times doing over 300miles a day, it needs to have the infrastructure there first.

 

[Ruffian]

@Kayos I'm not saying the whole grid, as lots of people in dense populated areas with decent infrastructure in place is brilliant.

I agree ev is coming regardless.
But like a few things I still think it is 5 years off for most of us.

Christ we knocked half of axminsters single phase supply out about 18months ago by trying to run 2 parlours. (Less than 300amps)

 

[willie.macleod]

There is a village near by with a farmer which runs holiday villas

Had 2 family's come down from London with teslas, the grid in remote locations wouldn't charge them. And to recharge them on the 13amp sockets wouldn't recharge in suitable time frame.

Something doesn't add up here, you go on holiday for a break to visit an area not to drive round for hundreds of miles a day. As @atomant48 says, you can put back 120 miles of range easily via a 10A slow charge from a domestic socket overnight, same power level draw as a kettle. If you drive an EV generally you have the nous to work out ways to integrate charging into your schedule so you aren't waiting around be it stopping for a cup of tea at a rapid charger or leaving the car whilst shopping on a fast charger in the car park. Tesla owners have even less excuse having exclusive access to another rapid charge network the rest of us don't.

 

[minimutly]

Something doesn't add up here, you go on holiday for a break to visit an area not to drive round for hundreds of miles a day. As @atomant48 says, you can put back 120 miles of range easily via a 10A slow charge from a domestic socket overnight, same power level draw as a kettle. If you drive an EV generally you have the nous to work out ways to integrate charging into your schedule so you aren't waiting around be it stopping for a cup of tea at a rapid charger or leaving the car whilst shopping on a fast charger in the car park. Tesla owners have even less excuse having exclusive access to another rapid charge network the rest of us don't.

Lol, rapid charge network, in the rural wilderness?

 

[Ruffian]

Something doesn't add up here, you go on holiday for a break to visit an area not to drive round for hundreds of miles a day. As @atomant48 says, you can put back 120 miles of range easily via a 10A slow charge from a domestic socket overnight, same power level draw as a kettle. If you drive an EV generally you have the nous to work out ways to integrate charging into your schedule so you aren't waiting around be it stopping for a cup of tea at a rapid charger or leaving the car whilst shopping on a fast charger in the car park. Tesla owners have even less excuse having exclusive access to another rapid charge network the rest of us don't.

How many people go on driving holidays.

Or say wanting to go over the 120miles a slow charge puts in.

Say I wanted to take the tesla to the nurbergring. Or on a uk track day, like I would my subaru.

Until electric points are like petrol stations then logistics aren't there.

I know exeter City Council have put in an order for 9 electric refuse lorries, but even the drivers have doubts on them.

 

[Kayos]

Lol, rapid charge network, in the rural wilderness?

There's one right at the top of Northumberland, proper middle of nowhere

 

[Ruffian]

There's one right at the top of Northumberland, proper middle of nowhere

And it will happen more and more.
But not yet.

And I'm just stating that at the moment it isn't suitable for everyone.

 

[Kayos]

And it will happen more and more.
But not yet.

And I'm just stating that at the moment it isn't suitable for everyone.

Completely agree, 3 years ago a Tesla was not suitable for me, by any stretch of the imagination

However the argument the grid can't cope is nonsense

 

[Ruffian]

Completely agree, 3 years ago a Tesla was not suitable for me, by any stretch of the imagination

However the argument the grid can't cope is nonsense

Ideal, well obviously my experiences are just coicidences

Some places we go can't get stable single phase. (Over 5%drop when loaded)

 

[willie.macleod]

How many people go on driving holidays.

Or say wanting to go over the 120miles a slow charge puts in.

Say I wanted to take the tesla to the nurbergring. Or on a uk track day, like I would my subaru.

Until electric points are like petrol stations then logistics aren't there.

I know exeter City Council have put in an order for 9 electric refuse lorries, but even the drivers have doubts on them.

Holidays aren't much fun if you just drive everywhere without stopping to experience the places you pass through. I see plenty of that here, folk who "do" the spinal route in a couple of days taking up ferry spaces needed by locals all to be able to tick a virtual box, never taking the time to actually slow down and enjoy the location.

The 120 miles a day is a basic starting point overnight, that only has to get you to a rapid charger en route which will fill your battery at something between 50 and 350kW so don't dawdle over your coffee, Teslas don't take too long to charge at 350kW!

Track cars - admittedly, you do need a trailer and a diesel tow vehicle to haul the remains back from a very expensive day out, especially at the Nurburgring

Refuse trucks, we are getting an electric one here, bit like the postal vehicles - the operators know the exact route and have extensive data on the operations expected so no reason why it shouldn't work well although an order of 9 seems brave to start with unless they've already trialled one. Low speed service vehicles with lots of stop/start operations are good candidates, especially in urban areas. Far better idea than trying to electrify long haul HGVs which is more of a non-starter at the moment.

 

[Ruffian]

Holidays aren't much fun if you just drive everywhere without stopping to experience the places you pass through. I see plenty of that here, folk who "do" the spinal route in a couple of days taking up ferry spaces needed by locals all to be able to tick a virtual box, never taking the time to actually slow down and enjoy the location.

The 120 miles a day is a basic starting point overnight, that only has to get you to a rapid charger en route which will fill your battery at something between 50 and 350kW so don't dawdle over your coffee, Teslas don't take too long to charge at 350kW!

Track cars - admittedly, you do need a trailer and a diesel tow vehicle to haul the remains back from a very expensive day out, especially at the Nurburgring

Refuse trucks, we are getting an electric one here, bit like the postal vehicles - the operators know the exact route and have extensive data on the operations expected so no reason why it shouldn't work well although an order of 9 seems brave to start with unless they've already trialled one. Low speed service vehicles with lots of stop/start operations are good candidates, especially in urban areas. Far better idea than trying to electrify long haul HGVs which is more of a non-starter at the moment.

Only reason I'm saying that is that Father in law is said driver on trade waste with the refuse.
Hence the concern behind it.

I do think long haul hgv would be a great idea as can almost tie in recharge with tacho breaks.

For example for me to get up to near you to enjoy the North coast 500 would be best part of 800miles, each way plus the 500 mile loop.

2100miles at say 300mile a day (7 days)

Well 800miles I could do that in just over 1 tank of diesel in 12 hours. Then can enjoy the loop.

 

[daleyd]

We picked up our ev last week - VW ID4.

It’s perfect for my wife’s usage, 80% charge gives us ~170 mile range, give or take. For us that means 2 nights a week it goes on the charger, at 7 kw it’s been taking about 4 hours to charge from 20%, so realistically we could stick it on lower charge rate (3.5 kw) overnight.

Love the car, it’s super quiet, great for round town and has loads of space. We were concerned about the whole electric thing when we bought it but decided to bite the bullet despite my wife being a complete technophobe. It’s been a revelation, no problems at all.

 

[Ruffian]

See compared to where tech was say 5-10 years ago, it's brilliant.

My dad's outlander phev hybrid struggles to get 30miles out of the battery pack.

I am interested in seeing the vw id van thing they have planned.

 

[willie.macleod]

Only reason I'm saying that is that Father in law is said driver on trade waste with the refuse.
Hence the concern behind it.

I do think long haul hgv would be a great idea as can almost tie in recharge with tacho breaks.

Long haul HGV wouldn't work with current battery tech as the power demand is way too high. No way to easily shoehorn all the energy required into the truck during a 45 minute break, the infrastructure required would be massive to cope with demand. We can't even provide toilets for truckers, far less 1000kW+ charging stations. Elon's Tesla trucks are somewhere in his head, it is diesel trucks delivering Teslas for a good reason - not to take away from his cars, they are fine as EVs for 95+% of the population but EV trucks are only going to be for a very small % of HGV for a long time.

 

[minimutly]

Only reason I'm saying that is that Father in law is said driver on trade waste with the refuse.
Hence the concern behind it.

I do think long haul hgv would be a great idea as can almost tie in recharge with tacho breaks.

For example for me to get up to near you to enjoy the North coast 500 would be best part of 800miles, each way plus the 500 mile loop.

2100miles at say 300mile a day (7 days)

Well 800miles I could do that in just over 1 tank of diesel in 12 hours. Then can enjoy the loop.

How long is a tacho break then? And how much charge would an artic hgv need after say, 200 miles?
Would be a long break or a big charger methinks.
I think you beat me to it..

 

[Ruffian]

Long haul HGV wouldn't work with current battery tech as the power demand is way too high. No way to easily shoehorn all the energy required into the truck during a 45 minute break, the infrastructure required would be massive to cope with demand. We can't even provide toilets for truckers, far less 1000kW+ charging stations. Elon's Tesla trucks are somewhere in his head, it is diesel trucks delivering Teslas for a good reason - not to take away from his cars, they are fine as EVs for 95+% of the population but EV trucks are only going to be for a very small % of HGV for a long time.

Only potential way would be the batterys in the bottom of the trailers.

That way can hook up and relay trailers that are charged to locations rather than waiting for the truck to recharge.

 

[minimutly]

Only potential way would be the batterys in the bottom of the trailers.

That way can hook up and relay trailers that are charged to locations rather than waiting for the truck to recharge.

And swap the load?

 

[Robotstar5]

How many people go on driving holidays.

Or say wanting to go over the 120miles a slow charge puts in.

Say I wanted to take the tesla to the nurbergring. Or on a uk track day, like I would my subaru.

Until electric points are like petrol stations then logistics aren't there.

I know exeter City Council have put in an order for 9 electric refuse lorries, but even the drivers have doubts on them.

West Mids Ambulance Service have been trialing an electric ambulance for a while now.

 

[Revs1972]

Tesla owners have even less excuse having exclusive access to another rapid charge network the rest of us don't.

Tell me about it. I needed to charge up whilst up in Amesbury last week. I had 113 mile range left and 115 miles to drive to get home. I could of charged closer to home, but knowing all sorts of things can close the A303 I thought it better to top up before I left.Mate said there were plenty of chargers in the Holiday Inn , so I popped in there. I could only find Tesla chargers , about 20 of them with a mere 3 in there charging. As I did the 3 point turn of shame to get out, a Model 3 driver said “I bet you wish you bought a Tesla now don’t you “ . I looked his car up and down , then looked at mine and said “nah, don’t think so mate” and drove off.
I then had to wait in the queue to get into the McDonald’s car park to get on a charger in there ( at that point I wish I had bought a Tesla )
Got myself a coffee , and 20 mins later I had another 80 miles added and refreshed ready for a 2 1/2 hour journey

If Elon opens up the network to us mere mortals I think he is going to upset a lot of Tesla drivers ( that USP being the only reason I would buy one )