car brake pipe..is kunifer the best one

[steveo3002]

need to diy a couple of brake pipes that are tatty , is kunifer the prefered choice for home users?

and one is along straight run , any suggestions how to make it nice and neat and not look like a dog chewed on it

 

[rtbcomp]

It's my favourite. Some DIY flaring tools aren't suitable for steel pipe, so a softer material is necessary.

 

[MattF]

Cupro-nickel is an absolute cowbag to work compared to copper though. A lot harder. If you're wanting an easily workable material, stick with copper, (my personal preference).

 

[tigler]

I second that !
Try Automec.
Oh, and get a bender, for the tight radii.

 

[hotrodder]

FWIW it's apparently illegal to use copper for brake pipes in many countries, it's to do with fatigue life as copper work hardens more quickly than cunifer. The story goes something like copper was origionally used when hydraulic brakes appeared, was ditched in favour of steel for strength/fatigue reasons and then cunifer started to appear for corrosion reasons but didn't become universal because of cost

 

[rtbcomp]

^^ that's my understanding. Kunifer ® may be more difficult than copper to work, but it's still dead easy.

 

[MattF]

Kunifer ® may be more difficult than copper to work, but it's still dead easy.

Not when you work your pipe by hand it isn't. Between thumb and fingers, there's little you can't do with small bore copper pipe by hand, especially once softened or fully annealed. The only Kunifer roll I've ever tried working with is still sat out in the shed almost untouched.

 

[pedrobedro]

The only Kunifer roll I've ever tried working with is still sat out in the shed almost untouched.

I've done a lot of pipes in Kunifer for various vehicles, completely piped two kit cars and a Mini all using a cheap Clarke flaring tool and not had a bit of trouble with any of them. Copper is fine though as long as it's well clipped as it can work harden and crack if it flexes.

 

[ford34/2]

recomended reading.

http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/showthread.php?t=6018&highlight=kunifer

Stan

 

[MattF]

I've done a lot of pipes in Kunifer for various vehicles, completely piped two kit cars and a Mini all using a cheap Clarke flaring tool and not had a bit of trouble with any of them.

Not saying that it's not good stuff, merely that it's the harder of the two to work.

Copper is fine though as long as it's well clipped as it can work harden and crack if it flexes.

I personally think that's where a lot of problems with copper come from, coupled with incorrect flaring, bending it whilst hardened making it extremely brittle etc. At the end of the day, Cunifer is also prone to work hardening too, if I recall correctly? The fact that it is a harder material makes it less prone to movement though, if not clipped/secured properly.

 

[langy]

Cupro-nickel is an absolute cowbag to work compared to copper though. A lot harder. If you're wanting an easily workable material, stick with copper, (my personal preference).

Kunifer is soft and very easily worked, Copper fractures easily, I would never use it, Its actually illegal in the US to use it.

 

[langy]

I've done a lot of pipes in Kunifer for various vehicles, completely piped two kit cars and a Mini all using a cheap Clarke flaring tool and not had a bit of trouble with any of them. Copper is fine though as long as it's well clipped as it can work harden and crack if it flexes.

I can point you to at least 4 or 5 people that have used Copper and they have all had failures directly behind the flare, thats where it always breaks due to fatigue when flared.

I really don't understand anyone chancing it when Kunifer is around £11 a roll, enough to do virtually any car you like. You only get one life !!!

.

 

[MattF]

I really don't understand anyone chancing it when Kunifer is around £11 a roll, enough to do virtually any car you like. You only get one life !!!

Whatever material is used, a system is only as good as how it was installed and created. Personally, I would happily use copper and never worry one moment about it, same as if I used Kunifer. Plus, with the amount of years which copper has been in use where vehicles are concerned, I can't ever recall any news of massive daily death tolls due to all of the copper related brake failures each day.... Each to their own, but copper is not devil spawn. Kunifer may have a theoretical edge on longevity, but neither is right nor wrong. They are both merely choices.

 

[the snooper]

i have always used copper and never had a problem as mentioned earlier as long as its secured properly and it is flared correctly i dont see a problem, its my guess that the pipes that fail have been damaged in some way when they were fitted.
not to mention that its not illegal here so it must meet requirments when used correctly

 

[langy]

Whatever material is used, a system is only as good as how it was installed and created. Personally, I would happily use copper and never worry one moment about it, same as if I used Kunifer. Plus, with the amount of years which copper has been in use where vehicles are concerned, I can't ever recall any news of massive daily death tolls due to all of the copper related brake failures each day.... Each to their own, but copper is not devil spawn. Kunifer may have a theoretical edge on longevity, but neither is right nor wrong. They are both merely choices.

I would agree to disagree, having seen failures I know what I would use.

 

[rtbcomp]

............ I can't ever recall any news of massive daily death tolls due to all of the copper related brake failures each day....

Same applies to steel. That's because steel corrosion gets picked up at MOT time. Non-ferrous pipes about to fail aren't so easily spotted.

 

[Sean]

Ive been using a lot of cu-ni and copper to make oil feed lines lately cu-ni seems to work harden noticeably as you bend it starts off bending like copper and by the end of the bend it feels like steel.
As for the longevity, too soon to say the copper lines on my engines have been on for years and 1000s of miles in harsher vibration and heat than id hope brake lines would suffer and ok - lasted longer than the commercially available steel ones.

not much help

 

[langy]

If you notice the failures on copper are always at the flare, not seen any failures on bends. My guess is that it thins when flared.
My point was that there are known failures with copper but not with Kunifer and Kunifer is only a few pounds more so why take the chance !!!

I'm pretty sure Volvo were the first to use Kunifer on production cars, they didn't choose copper did they ?

 

[RonA]

Cupro- nickel problems?

Cupro-nickel is an absolute cowbag to work compared to copper though. A lot harder. If you're wanting an easily workable material, stick with copper, (my personal preference).

Not sure where you're coming from with this one. Since cupro-nickel pipe became easily available, have never used anything else. To my mind it works as easily as the inferior leaded steel although I do use a specialised bending tool to achieve tight radii e.g. Where the pipe enters a wheel cylinder. The only problem I've ever encountered making up brake pipes is getting the length right & for that I use a flexible piece of electrical cable which allows me to follow the twists & bends of the original pipe exactly to get the correct length.

The great virtue of cupro-nickel is you can fit it & then be confident it will outlast the car.

RonA

 

[hotrodder]

The history of brake pipes... http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake.html, click the 'hydraulic brake tube' link at the left for a comparative test between steel and cuni