colnerov
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Already in post# 12.
- Thread starter Morrisman
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Already in post# 12.
Morris
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IVA is not the issue but it becomes a problem. If you read the (twice!) Posted newsletter article it is clear that DVLA have moved the goalposts with regard to the acceptable evidence for registration of vehicles that have no registration for what ever reason. They have also decided that any repair or modification no matter how trivial will result in the application being rejected as the vehicle is "modified". The only avenue available from there is BIVA which 99.9% have no chance of passing.
It seems that there are legal cases being pursued so something may come of these but I will not be holding my breath.
DVLA are not fit for purpose on this one.
rcx132
Philip
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I've never seen anything about MOT testers having to see the welding work, but I'm happy to be proven wrong if you have a link. I always assumed this is just over enthusiastic MOT testers.I also see alot of let's call them "low end" cars and vans on the road with really rusty patches on the cills!
This is because they obviously failed MOT for rust and had to present them back with bare steel and welds for inspection. Then they just drive them on months later rusting away without having painted them over to protect them
rcx132
Philip
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According to ChatGPT welding work does not have to be inspected in MOT test:I also see alot of let's call them "low end" cars and vans on the road with really rusty patches on the cills!
This is because they obviously failed MOT for rust and had to present them back with bare steel and welds for inspection. Then they just drive them on months later rusting away without having painted them over to protect them
Thats ok up untill 2021 ish. though.
For example
ME:
Hello, my good sir , could you please tell me the newest thing you know about the laws in the UK regarding welding repairs of cars.
Chat Gpt (the free one):
As of my knowledge cutoff in 2021, the UK government does not have specific laws regarding welding repairs of cars. However, there are regulations and standards that must be followed when performing welding repairs on vehicles to ensure they are safe for use on the road.
For example, the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 require that all vehicles be maintained in a safe and roadworthy condition, including their bodywork and structure. Additionally, the British Standards Institution (BSI) has established standards for vehicle repairs, including welding repairs, through its PAS 125 standard.
PAS 125 provides guidelines for repair processes and materials, as well as quality management systems, to ensure that vehicle repairs are carried out safely and to a high standard. It covers all aspects of the repair process, including the initial assessment of the vehicle, the repair plan, the repair process itself, and the final inspection and testing of the repaired vehicle.
It's important to note that if a welding repair is not performed to a safe and acceptable standard, it could result in serious consequences, such as structural failure or an accident. Therefore, it's essential to ensure that any welding repair work is carried out by a qualified and experienced professional who follows industry best practices and standards.
James1979
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He’s in NI. I think it’s different there.
Shouldn’t be as VOSA abd the NI DSA merged to form the DVSA but
If welding isnt allowed it would render 99 of historic cars fit for scrap. It strikes me that its legislating anything they dont like off the road. Doesnt matter that the classic & modified car/ vehicle world is a big industry. It isnt seen a PC any more as it isnt green, therefore it must be gotten rid of.
It reminds me very much of 1998 when the govment enacted the Recreational Craft directive for boats. It was already highly advanced when a crowd of us wooden boatbuilders found out about it at the wooden boat show & formed the wooden boatbuilders trade association. They managed with others to water it down slightly.
But the effect was overnight the British kit & home built boatbuilding industry was totally decimated overnight. A whole industry destroyed so big business could profit. No increase in safety just reams of pointless paperwork.
A few years ago i was at the point of getting a rowing boat i had built through the RCD, I needed no less than 4 iso standards at £150 each, then the over reaching application document £450, The iso documents i managed to acquire free from a mate who worked at lloyds the stack was 2" thick.
I pulled the plug on the project.
If crap like this comes to the car world it is finished.
It reminds me very much of 1998 when the govment enacted the Recreational Craft directive for boats. It was already highly advanced when a crowd of us wooden boatbuilders found out about it at the wooden boat show & formed the wooden boatbuilders trade association. They managed with others to water it down slightly.
But the effect was overnight the British kit & home built boatbuilding industry was totally decimated overnight. A whole industry destroyed so big business could profit. No increase in safety just reams of pointless paperwork.
A few years ago i was at the point of getting a rowing boat i had built through the RCD, I needed no less than 4 iso standards at £150 each, then the over reaching application document £450, The iso documents i managed to acquire free from a mate who worked at lloyds the stack was 2" thick.
I pulled the plug on the project.
If crap like this comes to the car world it is finished.
James1979
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Does that mean you can’t build any watercraft at all now then unless it’s type approved?
James1979
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Me either.
The repair standards for MOT allow it and that’s what the MOT people use.
DVSA publishes that document.
I’m at a loss as to what the DVLA have to do with it.
I’ve never heard of anyone getting a failure because of welding. Even **** welding is a possibility of a pass as it’s ‘minimum standard’ for an MOT pass.
And what is chat gpt?
As i said earlier, but roundly ignored, the DVLA have technical responsibility for vehicles under 3.5 ton, including registyration issues, NOT DVSA. So DVLA apply their own layer of nonsense over the DVSA stuff.
If, for example, you to replate your hilux from 3100kgs to 3499kgs, you deal with DVLA, not DVSA. At 3501, its now DVSA. But DVLA will still issue the V5.
The DSVLA are out of control.
The document reffered to is irrelevant.
Is that because with gas you heat up a greater area?
Red'n'Black
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Somebody posted the relevant bit of the MoT tester's manual up there ^ , I welded up the sill on my daughter's 106 only a few weeks ago after it failed the first time round and it was accepted without question.
I'd go along with the other advice above though, make a good job of it before presenting it the first time and nobody will be any the wiser.
I'd go along with the other advice above though, make a good job of it before presenting it the first time and nobody will be any the wiser.
Aye the molecules don't flow as fast towards more localised heat that mig/tig gives. They're happy in a warm state over a larger area... Sort of... There's stuff out there that can explain it far better than my layman's terms. But basically that.
You can mig and tig if you temper it, but you may aswell just weld it with the gas than use two processes
But this isnt about MOT's. Its about registering cars that have been welded.
JOEPRO
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I am in NI, its a different landscape here MOT tester wise.
I don't have a link to prove it. But I can assure you MOT testers here want to see the welds before it's shutzed over.
Indeed I once had a real argument with them over my 1992 500E! Long story short I had welded and waxoyled one cill on it about 3 months before the MOT. It was before covid so I was sitting beside the car in the test bay and seen him poking at it for about 5 mins.
I then politely offered to show him photos of the repairs if he wanted to see them. He got angry quick and asked how dare I interrupt him etc etc. He said he was going to send me home to wire brush off the waxoyl so he could see the welds. I told him it doesn't have rust so no authority for him to ask me to do that and I would appeal his decision. He stomped off to get the manager and was quickly sent on his way when the manager realised I wasn't being a d#ck, but rather his examiner was.
The manager then took my 500E through seconds later and passed no issues. The car was / is in top condition so it was quite unusual how the tester reacted. To be fair that's the only time that happened to me. But there again I always repair them between MOTs and not present them rusty.
I recall my S430 going in (which did have extensive restoration work) and 4 of them crawled around it. I heared them saying "it doesn't look like it was welded"
