Heating oil tank wobbles on supports!

[gaz1]

bad design 4 above and on this one below



now for containment its better to have a concrete base with a sump area one to get rid of water another if the tank busts it becomes a catchment

either build concrete walls and have it metal framed above so it looks like a building but its more tamper proof against thiefs

and the other containment type is to use simple concrete barge boards fence panels

 

[julianf]

i believe its this one

https://www.commercialfuelsolutions.co.uk/downloads/oftec/T19_base_construction.pdf

also look into polution prevention guidelines

a quick read

Oil Storage Regulations

Thanks Gaz, that looks like its spot on what i was after.

 

[knighty]

you want to build 4 corner posts of 9x9 concrete block concrete block cut in half

then buy concrete posts 2 for the full length outside and you want some smaller for the end supports

this will hold the outside stable walls

you also want 2 more walls built internal but thats after you do the above and fit in 2-3 extra support as you build it from the outside to the inside

View attachment 359580

why are you supporting the weight of the tank? it's negligible in comparison to the weight of the diesel inside?

liquid weight it all acting down through the bottom of the tank

I get that the sides hold the outer edge of the bottom straight / stop it sagging etc..

your design is overkill, 4 (or more) full length supports, longways, will sort it out

they'd be happy sitting on top of the old walls too


(someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, no engineer training here)

 

[armalites]

I often order over 3000 litres at a time and only pay the 5% VAT rate (all domestic but 3 boiler systems on the farm) - (I usually use Boilerjuice for ordering)

That's interesting, I've just done a google and it confirms up to 2300L is 5% but you can sign a VAT declaration if it's not commercial. Above 2300L is 20%

Do you use Boilerjuice because it's easy/convenient and order well in advance? I go on their site all the time and get quotes and they are never ever anywhere near what I can get with one phone call for a like for like service. Sure their prices are a lot closer if you can wait a few weeks but even then they aren't cheaper for me. That may well just be the area I'm in.

I'd be intrigued to know what prices you would get quoted if you made a few calls and the important bit is asking lead time. If a local supplier can delivery in 3 days that would come under an urgent/emergency service on Boilerjuice which atracts a big premium.

 

[awemawson]

Lead time isn’t usually an issue as I monitor the tanks (3) frequently. I had a few bad experiences ordering directly so have just used boilerjuice for the last few years. Mind you the last delivery was a nightmare. My BJ account clearly says 3 tanks but the driver categorically refused to drive between the tanks that are quite well spaced round the farm. So I said fine but you’ll have to find a place where you can stretch your hose to all three.

 

[gaz1]

why are you supporting the weight of the tank? it's negligible in comparison to the weight of the diesel inside?

liquid weight it all acting down through the bottom of the tank

I get that the sides hold the outer edge of the bottom straight / stop it sagging etc..

your design is overkill, 4 (or more) full length supports, longways, will sort it out

they'd be happy sitting on top of the old walls too


(someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, no engineer training here)

ive seen it alot with metal galvanised water tanks the big ones not like the small central heating tanks and also the small hot water overflow/refil tank

poor support is there main problem where the bottom fails on them

whilst i agree it maybe overkill it provides better support of the liquid to the metal surface and therefore wont bow the steel base as much

reference from airplane mass to weight
1,200 Liters = 1.32277 Tons (T)

whilst no support in the middle you would have 1.3t pushing on the metal base of the steel that will slightly pull at the sides per fill to empty ratio

im not going to calculate the push down force of 2 walls support steel container i suspect it maybe the same force per section or lets say 1/2 ton bearing down on the steel plate with 3 sections of no support factor in warm and cold stretching of the steel and that base plate will bow underneath as many of them do

to note here shiping containers have better support and carry much more weight in them

so why isnt the example used with oil tanks ?

 

[Matrixx]

The tank does not comply with the current Regs (PPG2 is now superseded) , it should be double skinned or bunded.
Due to the extra water now absorbed (biofuel content) it will be rotting from inside out. If it leaks you will be fined, and there is no limit on the fine. If gets into a water course then it becomes even more serious.

 

[dobbslc]

Yeah I know all of that^.

 

[dobbslc]

Looking at it last night and I'm now thinking of getting a new one instead of messing around with this. Problem is I'm pretty sure it won't lift out with a crane as it's directly under my incoming electric supply cable and behind some now quite large bushes and trees sooooo what's the concensus on cutting the bugger up?

 

[julianf]

Looking at it last night and I'm now thinking of getting a new one instead of messing around with this. Problem is I'm pretty sure it won't lift out with a crane as it's directly under my incoming electric supply cable and behind some now quite large bushes and trees sooooo what's the concensus on cutting the bugger up?

I've watched someone plasma one before. It caught light occasionally so he would wait a while for it to go out and then start again.

I don't know if it's possible for kerosene vapor to reach an explosive air/fuel mixture in normal atmospheric conditions but you would probably want to check. I suspect it probably isn't.

 

[julianf]

Ps better to do after a rainy spell than after a heat wave...

 

[gaz1]

are you still using the feed ?

as you would need a temporary solution to continue the feed

by barrels or by ibc tank

until the new base can be built and is set or can you relocate it ?

 

[octo0072000]

Looking at it last night and I'm now thinking of getting a new one instead of messing around with this. Problem is I'm pretty sure it won't lift out with a crane as it's directly under my incoming electric supply cable and behind some now quite large bushes and trees sooooo what's the concensus on cutting the bugger up?

Messy

 

[julianf]

1200 ltr bunded tanks come up on FB for sale often. Large ones not so frequently.

 

[dobbslc]

are you still using the feed ?

as you would need a temporary solution to continue the feed

by barrels or by ibc tank

until the new base can be built and is set or can you relocate it ?

It's still in use but I have an immersion heater so can use that for a (very) short while
I have a couple of 25 liter barrels I've lashed up to the boiler before when we ran out so could also do that.
As for the base I think it will be ok as it's big enough and pretty solid.

 

[julianf]

A side comment, re regs etc.

We live in a Devon village. Loads of bodgery all over the place.

Theres a lane between some little old thatched houses that I walk down sometimes.

One of the houses obviously has their garden on the other side of the lane. So how have they bought the oil pile through? Use the pre existing duct, of course.


(Pre existing duct being the surface water drains - somehow they have fed the oil line through the drainage system and then it comes up, out of the drain, where one of their down pipes feeds into it!)

 

[julianf]

It's still in use but I have an immersion heater so can use that for a (very) short while
I have a couple of 25 liter barrels I've lashed up to the boiler before when we ran out so could also do that.
As for the base I think it will be ok as it's big enough and pretty solid.

With a tiger loop fitted you can swap between 25ltr containers without any bother at all. I know this with certainty...

 

[wyn]

Looking at it last night and I'm now thinking of getting a new one instead of messing around with this. Problem is I'm pretty sure it won't lift out with a crane as it's directly under my incoming electric supply cable and behind some now quite large bushes and trees sooooo what's the concensus on cutting the bugger up?

I've cut a few up with grinders and they do catch fire.

The last one i did, i drilled some holes with a holesaw to enable me to put a fan in place to vent it.
I then chopped it up with a rage evolution circular saw. It was only around 2.5mm thick.

 

[dobbslc]

I have an almost full bottle of argon from my not very successful tig welding days, would I be able to purge the tank with that? No sure how to connect it but I think argon is heavier than air...

 

[dobbslc]

Just had a quick Google.
Air = 28.9 moles
Argon = 39.9 moles
A strange way to measure gas but I suppose moles are easy to catch and weight