Help with imperial measurements

[Screwdriver]

Bah humbug to ‘conceptually’. The value of Pi was detetmined long before orbits were invented! I’m for practicality. Most of us measur someting to find the value of something else. Measuring the diameter of a pip is sooo much easier than trying to measure its radius - unless, of course , you first measure the diameter and then calculate the radius from that.

Ask yourself how a diameter occurred.

 

[Screwdriver]

I cannot decipher those smileys. What does that mean? You are not going to consider how a diameter occurs??

This is a thread criticising imperial measuring units and discussing how/why they are still relevant in the real world. In the real world it is easier to measure a diameter but when, after measuring it, would you need to use Pi in the real world?

It was merely an example of when a choice is made on units/scales/constants in antiquity which become troublesome in the age of technology where computers do the thinking for us.

 

[Maker]

I think everyone should start using base twelve instead of base ten, it's so much more practical. Hours, months, inches, eggs and degrees are all much more neatly expressed in dozenal than decimal, you can divide by 2, 3, 4 and 6 as easily as dividing by 2 and 5 in decimal, clearly thirds and quarters are so much better than rubbish old fifths.

 

[Screwdriver]

I think everyone should start using base twelve instead of base ten, it's so much more practical. Hours, months, inches, eggs and degrees are all much more neatly expressed in dozenal than decimal, you can divide by 2, 3, 4 and 6 as easily as dividing by 2 and 5 in decimal, clearly thirds and quarters are so much better than rubbish old fifths.

I am not immune to irony but you make a fair point. The multiple systems of measurement are a mess and should be replaced with "better".

We can then have a sensible discussion about what makes a unit "better" and what might make it human friendly. Like I said, I use mm as much as I possibly can unless I am speaking to someone where the metric system fails to convey either the meaning of an observation or has a numerical value that is tricky to hold in your head or inappropriate for the accuracy required (or a really large number of impossibly small units).

Now normally I'd be looking at a slice of steak to decide if it's the "right" size. Since I am not that metric friendly I have "no idea" what an 8 ounce (226g) steak would be in grams "on the spot". But if the butcher asks I'll probably say slice off an inch thick please (25mm just doesn't "sound" right) or he might say 8oz or 6oz (12oz is American sizing). Easy decision, small numbers. Six vs. eight (or 12 I suppose).

In grams that is a chore. I'll round it off so I'm not being picky but would you really ask for a 225g steak? Would you know (on the spot) that a 6oz steak would be 170g? Would you easily be able to "tell" the difference between 225g and 170g which is near as dammit 8oz vs. 6oz? Do you metric kids do that? Do you ask for half a kilogram or a quarter? Quarter pounder has a ring to it but does "quarter kilo" even exist as an option Note, here we are again using fractions in an attempt to get rid of them...

I am genuinely asking because I appreciate being an older person means I am bringing all my imperial baggage along with me. I've just never heard anyone use a precision metric scale in the vernacular when you just want a sensible size thing or vaguely describe something being miles off...

 

[Munkul]

Well pints are ok, but full litres of beer are great That's a system of measurement I can get on board with

 

[My Old Landy]

Although we still use miles on road signs, it is funny to note that the official stopping distances are miles per hour (Kms in brackets) but Metres (Feet in brackets)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/559afb11ed915d1595000017/the-highway-code-typical-stopping-distances.pdf

 

[Screwdriver]

Yebbut:

...and for those who don't want to wade through it:

 

[pressbrake1]

It was a philosophical point made in relation to the choice of “human“ size measuring scales. I suggested imperial units have their place since they are still useful in giving a sense of perspective, in understanding the physicality of nature as it relates to a person.

Conceptually, Pi is not the fundamental constant from which geometry is created in nature. An orbit for example has a focus and a radius, it is from that geometry a diameter may be created. Therefore when trying to appreciate nature from a human perspective, which involves complex maths and odd equations, Pi is a derivative constant and not a fundamental property of nature.

How that affects our measurement of this phenomena is irrelevant.

Imperial measures are part of the English language are they’re based on the human world which isn’t scientific
Give a inch take a mile ..
Six pints is a nice amount
Also attainable accuracy does marry up to imperial units thou and tenth
Pre dro I certainly preferred thou on turning.
I think it’s funny how so called liberal American politics have washed over and there’s some self righteousness in only knowing metric units over here as seen on this thread
It’s stupid as you’ve got to be ancient (and probably long dead)to only know imperial!
My father would be in his 90s now only used metric ..

 

[Robotstar5]

I think everyone should start using base twelve instead of base ten, it's so much more practical. Hours, months, inches, eggs and degrees are all much more neatly expressed in dozenal than decimal, you can divide by 2, 3, 4 and 6 as easily as dividing by 2 and 5 in decimal, clearly thirds and quarters are so much better than rubbish old fifths.

We had an oddball one on some robot optical encoders, grey or grays code was base sixteen.

 

[Screwdriver]

Surprised you didn't mention press tooling!

I had a nightmare organising mine...shed-tidy-and-storage-update

"Notice how the fractional inches are somewhat cumbersome? No? Ok, here's the problem, you are in a trance like state of robotic organising. You find a 29/64. Is that bigger or smaller than a 7/16? Then after a quick mental calc, you try to find the correct place to put it <above> 7/16 but you have to move a row of 13/32 to get it in and one of your 27/64 dies sits on a 13/32 punch. Now, what were you trying to do in the first place?"

Sadly I fear they have not survived my inability to put things back. I should have marked the holes. I don't want to go back through that lot again but needs must. At least after organising them, I had a much better understanding of fractions (which lasted for days....).

 

[Maker]

We had an oddball one on some robot optical encoders, grey or grays code was base sixteen.

Hexadecimal is dead common in computer science because it works nicely with binary, a single hex digit is expresses 4 bits (A word) so two hex digits represents a byte.

 

[prepman]

Bah humbug to ‘conceptually’. The value of Pi was detetmined long before orbits were invented! I’m for practicality. Most of us measur someting to find the value of something else. Measuring the diameter of a pip is sooo much easier than trying to measure its radius - unless, of course , you first measure the diameter and then calculate the radius from that.

You can't have your

I think everyone should start using base twelve instead of base ten, it's so much more practical. Hours, months, inches, eggs and degrees are all much more neatly expressed in dozenal than decimal, you can divide by 2, 3, 4 and 6 as easily as dividing by 2 and 5 in decimal, clearly thirds and quarters are so much better than rubbish old fifths.

Or the good old hexdecimal........a really boon to those of us with sixteen fingers.

 

[Dr.Al]

Six pints is a nice amount

Six pints would have me on the floor

 

[prepman]

Yebbut:

...and for those who don't want to wade through it:

ABS or not ?

 

[prepman]

Surprised you didn't mention press tooling!

I had a nightmare organising mine...shed-tidy-and-storage-update

"Notice how the fractional inches are somewhat cumbersome? No? Ok, here's the problem, you are in a trance like state of robotic organising. You find a 29/64. Is that bigger or smaller than a 7/16? Then after a quick mental calc, you try to find the correct place to put it <above> 7/16 but you have to move a row of 13/32 to get it in and one of your 27/64 dies sits on a 13/32 punch. Now, what were you trying to do in the first place?"

Sadly I fear they have not survived my inability to put things back. I should have marked the holes. I don't want to go back through that lot again but needs must. At least after organising them, I had a much better understanding of fractions (which lasted for days....).

My 125/679" spanner has pride of place....

 

[bricol]

Six pints would have me on the floor

I'd have to ask for a tray - or make several trips . . .



I don't drink - so most places in the USA I announce I'm the designated driver, and I get free soft drinks. Even when I actually walked from the hotel, as did my colleagues

 

[Maker]

I'm resurrecting this crap thread for two reasons; one, this video:

And two, it occurred to me I made a mistake, not that anyone seemed to notice so I'll say it was a deliberate test, and everyone failed.

Hexadecimal is dead common in computer science because it works nicely with binary, a single hex digit is expresses 4 bits (A word) so two hex digits represents a byte.

4 bits is a nibble, a word is 2 bytes, 16 bits.

 

[Kayos]

I'm resurrecting this crap thread for two reasons; one, this video:

And two, it occurred to me I made a mistake, not that anyone seemed to notice so I'll say it was a deliberate test, and everyone failed.

4 bits is a nibble, a word is 2 bytes, 16 bits.

A. This thread is awesome
2. We dont need a B because the 1st point was great

 

[Barking Mat]

The original link was posted as a bit of fun, as it amuses me that an archaic system is still widely used in allegedly civilised countries

You need to chill out a bit, my son is 10, very very clever, he will do well in life. However he has no idea what an inch or a pound is, and he has no need to know either

Hasn't some prime minister just proposed the return of the imperial system ?

 

[Screwdriver]

An interesting video which exposes the lie of metrology. It tells you nothing really, it's a scam. You can pick and choose your units so that they make some sense to you as an individual or to your CNC machine to produce something you are happy with.

The fundamental purpose of a universal so called coherent system of measurement is to describe the relationship between phenomena we observe. It is described in units we "understand", it says nothing about our shared reality and the elephant in the room is that it can never be accurate. Never. Close but not perfect.

Reason being that at some stage you're going to run into a fundamental constant. Something that is objectively real because those constants have been determined by the universe. They are all irrational numbers. What is an irrational number? Pi, e and root 2 are good examples. They are numbers which cannot be counted and if you can't count them, then your sums are never going to add up. So we use symbols to represent the numerical value, perform some algebra to remove as many pesky constants as possible so that at the end, we can calculate an answer to some arbitrary precision.

It's never going to be right though...