Wrong oil

[premmington]

Let me guess, did she start slating the garage for their "greedy" quote?

I have endless arguments with our cleaner, she's always bad mouthing the garages and I'm trying to explain to her hour many hours these jobs take.

£3.5k for a new engine in a 2019 Focus car "does not look greedy" to me...

Assuming it a Ecoboost lump.

To be honest - I would not be excited at dishing out that quote - I would preying she would say no. Customer abuse element - would not make a years warranty a nice ride for anybody supplying her an engine (I think to frank - I would decline to quote).

 

[Matchless]

It has been mentioned but maybe not loud enough, old spec oils have Zinc and you need Zinc where you have high pressure sliding surfaces, i.e. camshafts with followers or rockers, Catalytic converters don't like Zinc so manufacturers started fitting roller rockers with roller bearings where they ride on the cam, no sliding, no need for Zinc! you will not get a Zinc additive in a "modern" oil.

 

[Kerelise]

Let me guess, did she start slating the garage for their "greedy" quote?

I have endless arguments with our cleaner, she's always bad mouthing the garages and I'm trying to explain to her how many hours these jobs take.

I was curious because my father had rover p5b v8, and water hose broke on motor way so it overheated so much that the oil was sizzling in it; but he rebuilt the engine, but I guess different scenario plus different engines etc - just that I’m of the mindset that any thing mechanical can be fixed provided you throw enough money and time at it. Was curious as I was considering buying it off her as body wise the car (and her, ahem) looks great

 

[Smallfry]

I was curious because my father had rover p5b v8, and water hose broke on motor way so it overheated so much that the oil was sizzling in it; but he rebuilt the engine, but I guess different scenario plus different engines etc - just that I’m of the mindset that any thing mechanical can be fixed provided you throw enough money and time at it. Was curious as I was considering buying it off her as body wise the car (and her, ahem) looks great

Rover V8s are very simple old Hectors, and very cheap to rebuild compared to modern stuff. I have done more than 50 over the last 40 odd years.

I would still have a go at the Ecoboom, if that's what it is, more out of curiosity, and to see if I could. Might be fixable. If you buy a pre enjoyed engine (especially one of these) it is a bit of a gamble.

Not fair on any garage to ask them to fit one either, as likely it will not last long, and most customers will not understand or accept this, and just slag the garage off, even though they deserve it a lot of the time

 

[Matchless]

Often the issue I came across as a garage owner was people, usually tight customers whose engine had failed due to lack of maintenance, lack of oil changes, cheap oil, not changing timing chains when they first became noisy on start up, failing to change timing belts at recommended intervals etc. was their refusal to have a used engine inspected and chains /belts changed as a preventative measure to reduce the risk of future premature failure....... JUST FIT IT as it has a guarantee from the Ebay seller.......

 

[Smallfry]

Often the issue I came across as a garage owner was people, usually tight customers whose engine had failed due to lack of maintenance, lack of oil changes, cheap oil, not changing timing chains when they first became noisy on start up, failing to change timing belts at recommended intervals etc. was their refusal to have a used engine inspected and chains /belts changed as a preventative measure to reduce the risk of future premature failure....... JUST FIT IT as it has a guarantee from the Ebay seller.......

Exactly. Why would one NOT do this. I do not understand it at all, but I guess some people just see a car as an unnecessary expense, and would rather spend loads on spa weekends, wellness retreats, beer fags and skittles or whatever.

By and large, just ends up costing them even more usually.

 

[RWD3M]

This is a subject close to my heart as the owner/custodian of both a Fiesta wiith an Ecoboom and a Jaguar with an Ingenium!

Both get regular oil changes, probably excessively so, and maintained within a inch of thier, probably truncated, lives!

As for the 3.5k for a new engine, that seems pretty reasonable to me. I know the little 1.0 Ecoboom that is in the wife's fiesta can be bought for about 2.5k (inc vat) so a grand to fit seems about right.

The Ingenium is on another level altogether! I have had all the timing gear replaced with the latest spec stuff on that one (as a precaution) so don't expect any problems, however.....

 

[Red'n'Black]

It has been mentioned but maybe not loud enough, old spec oils have Zinc and you need Zinc where you have high pressure sliding surfaces, i.e. camshafts with followers or rockers, Catalytic converters don't like Zinc so manufacturers started fitting roller rockers with roller bearings where they ride on the cam, no sliding, no need for Zinc! you will not get a Zinc additive in a "modern" oil.

Interesting, I was wondering about that. I haven't had many engines apart and there was a big gap between the A series lumps in the bangers of my youth, and more recent stuff (early 2000s). I wondered why they bothered with roller followers on basic engines like the 1.1 in a 106. Every day's a school day.

 

[truckdoctor]

I have run a flathead V8 ( 1947 spec) with a mixture of 20/40 and EP 90 . Worked great and and would use more EP 90 to increase the low oil pressure if needed. Certainly worked well taking up slack in the worn out bearing and much cheaper than a re build.

 

[Dragnet]

I recommend "Which Oil? Choosing the right oils and greases for your antique, vintage, veteran, classic or collector car" by Richard Mitchell. Available to order from Smith's, Blackwell's etc. or direct from the publisher Veloce here.

You can see from the sample pages on that link how in-depth and geekishly fascinating it is. He uses his own cars (from the 1910s to 1980s) as examples for oils and greases, and what steps he goes through to interpret the (historically technically limited) requirements inherent in the manufacturer's specifications at the time for modern formulations.

 

[AVI_8]

It has been mentioned but maybe not loud enough, old spec oils have Zinc and you need Zinc where you have high pressure sliding surfaces, i.e. camshafts with followers or rockers, Catalytic converters don't like Zinc so manufacturers started fitting roller rockers with roller bearings where they ride on the cam, no sliding, no need for Zinc! you will not get a Zinc additive in a "modern" oil.

Totally agree, it’s been discussed to death on forums, also on one over in the US for rebuilding Porsche engines, air cooled that is, whereby modern oils combined with flat followers on the cams have caused pitting on cam lobes and followers, Mobil 1 for example has a ZDDP content of 700-900 ppm depending on the flavour, there are modern oils however which are fully synthetic and do have the minimum ZDDP addition though you’ve just got to look for them, and oil companies don’t tend to quote these numbers 1200 PPM is about the minimum for a flat tappet engine, (that’s from an engine rebuilding expert not me) and that won’t damage a cat, from memory it’d need to be much higher for that to happen.
Millers modern Synthetic oils are between 1200-1400 ppm, I’ve been using Millers for years now.
With any engine , probably pre 2000 not running roller followers, you really need to take this into consideration when choosing an oil.

 

[Puglet1]

All.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
The subject of mixing oils and the effect is very interesting.
After reading the comments, I decided to drain the oil, replace the filter and replenish the oil with the correct spec as recommended by the manufacturer of the day.
Miraculously, the noise seems to have disappeared. It still remains a mystery to me as to why but at the moment I’ll run with it.
Pete.

 

[AVI_8]

Actually modern engines are even more complex, gone are the days you can go and buy a 0-30 or a 5-40, it now has to be manufacturer specific.
I’ve just bought a wee Fiat 500 for my mother in law from Copart, couldn’t source an oil locally which was within Fiat’s specs, had to order it from ECP and wait for it to arrive 2 days later in one litre cartons, in the boot of the car I bought was the correct grade 1 litre bottle but completely the wrong spec.
I’m sure car garages dealing with a myriad of cars must have to spend a great deal of time researching what is correct.

 

[Onoff]

Oil... slightly off track but a weird one:

My MK1 Ghia Focus, 2.0L black top Zetec petrol. It was getting hard to change gear. SWMBO would moan like hell it was too hard to push the pedal. I had changed the gearbox oil when I got it to red Comma stuff but it had been fine. According to the local motor factors it was the right stuff and ditto on Euro, GSF etc. Level was fine.

Did some searching and on a few US sites they were mentioning straw or honey colour oil, only available from Ford, was the fix.

Went to the Ford dealer, yes they could get it, about x3 the price of the Comma stuff which they themselves used for servicing so why bother?

I insisted. The honey coloured stuff came in, same viscosity etc as the Comma stuff.

Drained the red Comma, refilled with the honey colour stuff and went for a drive. Within a couple of hundred yards gear change went back to how it should be.

 

[Bobtail4x4]

I wonder if you an add Zinc to a new type of oil?

or slick 50??

 

[Smallfry]

I wonder if you an add Zinc to a new type of oil?

or slick 50??

Slick 50 or Nulon. Absolutely not This stuff congeals in oilways. There are ZDDP additives though, but normally better (and cheaper) just to buy an oil with a high level in the first place.

In all my old stuff, plus a Unimog and tractors, I use Smith & Allan Ultra. 1500ppm ZDDP.

 

[Smallfry]

Oil... slightly off track but a weird one:

My MK1 Ghia Focus, 2.0L black top Zetec petrol. It was getting hard to change gear. SWMBO would moan like hell it was too hard to push the pedal. I had changed the gearbox oil when I got it to red Comma stuff but it had been fine. According to the local motor factors it was the right stuff and ditto on Euro, GSF etc. Level was fine.

Did some searching and on a few US sites they were mentioning straw or honey colour oil, only available from Ford, was the fix.

Went to the Ford dealer, yes they could get it, about x3 the price of the Comma stuff which they themselves used for servicing so why bother?

I insisted. The honey coloured stuff came in, same viscosity etc as the Comma stuff.

Drained the red Comma, refilled with the honey colour stuff and went for a drive. Within a couple of hundred yards gear change went back to how it should be.

Had a very similar experience with Renault Master gearboxes. I just use the proper Renault specified Elf stuff. Expensive, but it just works.

 

[Smallfry]

All.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
The subject of mixing oils and the effect is very interesting.
After reading the comments, I decided to drain the oil, replace the filter and replenish the oil with the correct spec as recommended by the manufacturer of the day.
Miraculously, the noise seems to have disappeared. It still remains a mystery to me as to why but at the moment I’ll run with it.
Pete.

I have always noticed how engines seem a bit quieter after an oil change, especially older ones. I guess this is proof positive that oil does lose something along the way.

 

[northwest]

Oil... slightly off track but a weird one:

My MK1 Ghia Focus, 2.0L black top Zetec petrol. It was getting hard to change gear. SWMBO would moan like hell it was too hard to push the pedal. I had changed the gearbox oil when I got it to red Comma stuff but it had been fine. According to the local motor factors it was the right stuff and ditto on Euro, GSF etc. Level was fine.

Did some searching and on a few US sites they were mentioning straw or honey colour oil, only available from Ford, was the fix.

Went to the Ford dealer, yes they could get it, about x3 the price of the Comma stuff which they themselves used for servicing so why bother?

I insisted. The honey coloured stuff came in, same viscosity etc as the Comma stuff.

Drained the red Comma, refilled with the honey colour stuff and went for a drive. Within a couple of hundred yards gear change went back to how it should be.

Pal of mine, bit like @premmington , runs a straight garage operation, tells it like it is and runs away from cheap customers. One of his regulars bought a pretty flash, top of the range Merc or BMW and brought it in wanting "all the oils changed". He was advised to leave the gearbox alone, it wasn't necessary yet and besides, the oil from the main dealers was really expensive. Couple weeks later he came back in, will you have a look at the gearbox, it is doing weird things. Sure enough he had the oil changed by someone else and the gearbox was well kooked .

Some of the modern gearboxes are not to be messed with.

 

[brightspark]

Pal of mine, bit like @premmington , runs a straight garage operation, tells it like it is and runs away from cheap customers. One of his regulars bought a pretty flash, top of the range Merc or BMW and brought it in wanting "all the oils changed". He was advised to leave the gearbox alone, it wasn't necessary yet and besides, the oil from the main dealers was really expensive. Couple weeks later he came back in, will you have a look at the gearbox, it is doing weird things. Sure enough he had the oil changed by someone else and the gearbox was well kooked .

Some of the modern gearboxes are not to be messed with.

it was virtualy unheard of changing manual gearbox oil. all mine never got changed and did over 110 thousand miles .only ever changed the diff oil in one . never changed the brake oil unless a cylinder leaked . changed the engine oil and filter evey 8 thousand miles and that was about it