Who would you employ

[SmartWerks]

On a side note, my old man tried to get redundancy from the RAF but was rejected. Obviously had some value.

 

[dannyp]

tricky question. i may have chosen wrong, went the degree route and **Language**ed it up.

atm my options if i ever want to acheve anything seem to be go OU and get a degree, as that is a magor issue in every interview iv got myself

 

[SmartWerks]

tricky question. i may have chosen wrong, went the degree route and ****** it up.

atm my options if i ever want to acheve anything seem to be go OU and get a degree, as that is a magor issue in every interview iv got myself

Don't give up buddy. Go for it, you at least know now what is required. Older, wiser, learned from mistakes and all that. I ended up a chemical tanker driver and you don't want to do that. 70 hrs work for what you could earn doing 40 hrs or so.

 

[Rocketman]

I got on to a OND in engineering after leaving school without English O level equivalent, you were supposed to have English but I had good grades in the ones that counted. Math and physics are very important though which I did have. Did the first year and everyone had to go on work experience over the summer in a local engineering company which then offered a apprenticeship. So I took the apprenticeship and went over to civil engineering as it was place who did high spec structural steel.

So did the ONC in civil engineering while working for the company part time like you do. Went on to the HNC in civil engineering did the first year but then a recession hit and the company went bust after 30 years of trading. So lost my job.......... but then I was picked up by another company who through the people that ran my apprenticeship. This was the painful bit though - it was heavy engineering in powerstations - balls.

This meant even though I was half way through a HNC in Civil engineering they didn't want that so back to the old mechanical engineering!! Started a HNC in mechanical engineering and after the first year guess what????
That company went bust!!!! Arh!!

This time in the early 90's (93 maybe? can't remember) it was really hard to get an engineering job especially without much experience - jobs had really dried up. Decided I needed to finish the HNC in engineering or I would get nowhere in life.

Took a rubbish job part time and paid for the last year on the mechanical engineering HNC myself.

Anyway after finishing the HNC I managed to get back on the engineering ladder. So here I am today designing a injection mould tool for a new car platform for Ford, back on to a modifying a BMW after first samples after this one. Rough years to start but got there in the end

 

[normspanners]

My mates son is in the army but as a remy? (edit REME) he works on Apache copters he is 20 has had two new cars got a motor bike done his direct access, he is in australia now on holiday etc etc, ok he has done 2 tours in afghan but they look after
the mechs a little more I think, No use training a man costing 10sx £1000s to have them shot.
Probably walk into a job in aviation when he decides to come out.
He left school with nothing because he was there very little, and he was at a fork, in his road to life, he went RIGHT but could easily have gone left, left with no prospects job or money and he could easily have ended up 'with the wrong people', for him to get his excitement, if ya catch ma drift.
He is a changed boy no make that a MAN
I applaud him, and I am proud of him let alone his dad !!
AND I TELL HIM!!

 

[Kayos]

Not read all the replies but an apprenticeship all the way.

I did one many years ago instead of going to uni and don't regret it, true since then I've had a wide range of experience which helps but when I was job hunting this year I was out of work 6 weeks because I was being picky, and now earn a wage that in most other trades would need a degree and 5 years plus at a senior level.

They can't teach experience at any uni, you only learn it being hands on and that starts way sooner as an apprentice

 

[harryb94]

Haven't read the whole thread to be honest but thought I'd add the route I've gone down, like you I didn't want to go to uni but like has been mentioned in this thread a lot of employers like a degree, but then they also like people to have real life experience. I did my a levels and I am now doing a higher apprenticeship where I'm at work 4 days a week and then on the 5th day I'm on day release to do a foundation degree which is all paid for by the company so I don't have to spend a penny on it, then once I've finished the apprenticeship I should come out of it with a job and a foundation degree. Then if the company see it as worthwhile (which as far as I can tell chatting to other people they usually do) you can top up the foundation degree to a bsc or msc, again all paid for by the company!

Personally I'd say if you were considering uni vs apprenticeship I'd still do the a levels and then do a higher apprenticeship, at the end of it if you feel the job you have isn't quite what you want you'll have 4 years experience working and a foundation degree behind you and you can find something more suited, if you have any questions about what I've done feel free to PM me

 

[atomant48]

Here's my 2p worth - firstly degree route. There's been a lot of advice here about what the degree gives you in terms of quals but no ones really touched on the life skills you do get at uni. My best friends from those days are still best friends now - 20+ years on. We did a lot more during the 4 years than just study; I think in those days the guys that left school straight into jobs did lose touch with everyone somewhat but I guess internet etc makes up for some of those differences these days. Also during my degree (mech eng) we had to do 20 weeks "practical work" - I ended up in some very interesting fabrication companies as a general hand, and even got some free welding lessons during lunch breaks! I think the assumption on some of the posts that graduates have no practical skills is a little harsh, this will depend on many things but for a start the individual - what is your entry level into the degree, and what do you do in your spare time for eg. I was/am into mechanical things - cars, Motorsport, etc so think I had a reasonable grounding. Other guys were into the early days of composites and I remember a couple of them making a pretty cool carbon snowboard. So not all graduates are soft skinned numpties!

As for the apprenticeship - I can see the attraction of a "quicker start" and the early hands on you will get. I do think it's not as easy as saying you will do a degree later on when you want to, though. Things like family and mortgages might make it harder to go into study once you are settled into life.

As for your original post, couple of observations. I think your grandfather was on the right track, but I actually think quals will only get you the interview - not the job. This is probably why so many people with degrees can't get jobs - need to brush up on talking to people! Secondly, you say you will be doing what you want by 19. I'm more than double that now and am thinking about changing direction - so don't be too quick to railroad yourself! The English exam question you gave was very particular so I assume you studied that specific poem. Passing exams like that is just about manipulating an answer you've already thought about to suit the question - I would hope that in class you had looked at questions that were a little like that?

Finally, what is your school doing to help ? As you're considering both routes I would hope they are trying to support with advice etc, maybe introducing you to local firms or managers to get a feel for it, and providing info about the degrees ?

 

[daleyd]

but no ones really touched on the life skills you do get at uni.

need to brush up on talking to people!

Seems there are some life skills you just can't get at uni then!

 

[Justme]

Don't suppose there's many jobs working on heli's outside of the forces?

Well all the Search & rescue choppers are now private for a start. Add in all the police, helimed & private ones & there must be a few jobs around.

 

[Rocketman]

If you are repairing fixing helicopters surely that makes you a mechanic not a mechanical engineer in the true sense.

Bit like going down the local garage and the engineers fix your car.

 

[Rocketman]

IIRC in many jurisdictions "Engineer" is reserved for those with a minimum of a BEng (and often higher), though the UK has fudged it into job titles where it doesn't apply...

Also heard a dit that many places call their "mechanics" technicians as there is some training requirement for mechanics that doesn't apply to technicians...can't remember the full dit though... :dunno:

That only applies to the study side of things in certain circles. The actual job you are doing is whether you are doing engineer or not. So say you are employed as a design engineer deigning helicopters it would be irrelevant what education you had if you could do the job competently. You would be a design engineer for helicopters.

The point being though if you are repairing/maintaining helicopters you may be very skill but strictly speaking you would be a mechanic.

 

[brightspark]

theres hardly any diffrence between an aircraft mechanic and a motor mechanic the only diffrence is if the motor packs in up in the air due to bad workmanship chances are u will crash .a car on the ground u just conk out and stop

 

[daleyd]

I design control systems and software strategies to run complex plants, I don't particularly covet the title but I guess my job would be deemed to be an engineers position, but I only have a hnc.

There are some guys repairing the equipment I design who have degrees, in a technician role. I think it's very much dependant on the role you are doing, not an arbitrary qualification.

 

[Maker]

It may not technically be "engineering" but I know I'd enjoy it and I doubt the pay is bad.

 

[Big Pete]

At my place the grads start on ~£26k a year and do some pretty interesting stuff. Qualified engineers are in huge demand in the UK, there's a shortage, which pushes wages up. I ahve a degree, and have done everything from install high pressure gas lines, machine parts on the lathe/mill through to design and high end stress and thermal analysis. It just depends on who you work for and what you are working on. A degree will open more doors, and generally speaking result in more cash over the long term than the craft (apprentice) route. Nightschool is really , really hard to complete if you're working as well. At the minute you aren't bothered about cash, but wait a couple of years until you have a girlfriend or a flat and are working 50 hours a week to get the overtime cash, then add on 8-10 hours a week of hard thinking.

Also, bear this in mind, I don't do any hands on stuff in my current job, but I have a garage full of tools and bike projects that I can enjoy because I make enough cash to do so. Making stuff doesn't have to be done at work, and welding up your 400th pipe joint might start getting a bit tiresome.

 

[daleyd]

At my place the grads start on ~£26k a year and do some pretty interesting stuff. Qualified engineers are in huge demand in the UK, there's a shortage, which pushes wages up. I ahve a degree, and have done everything from install high pressure gas lines, machine parts on the lathe/mill through to design and high end stress and thermal analysis. It just depends on who you work for and what you are working on. A degree will open more doors, and generally speaking result in more cash over the long term than the craft (apprentice) route. Nightschool is really , really hard to complete if you're working as well. At the minute you aren't bothered about cash, but wait a couple of years until you have a girlfriend or a flat and are working 50 hours a week to get the overtime cash, then add on 8-10 hours a week of hard thinking.

Also, bear this in mind, I don't do any hands on stuff in my current job, but I have a garage full of tools and bike projects that I can enjoy because I make enough cash to do so. Making stuff doesn't have to be done at work, and welding up your 400th pipe joint might start getting a bit tiresome.

If you get an apprenticeship your not going to be nailed to the shop floor though? I was an artificer apprentice in the the RN and out of a class of 30, a couple have gone on to get degrees in one form or another, the other 20 odd are mostly in pretty high end jobs through their experience and hnc quals. One guy ended up as a senior manager for rail track with a staff of around 1000 working under him on the electrification of the East Coast line.

I'm not running down getting a degree, but it seems like a lot of people think that just because you don't have one that you can't get anywhere.

 

[Big Pete]

Some of the bigger outfits (RR for example) run 2 apprentice streams, craft and tech, tech eventually does a degree, craft is shop floor. It's certainly possible to get a degree later, but IMO it's harder, I did mine when I was 24, having been at work since I was 18, and the loss of income almost made me quit. The drop out rate on mech eng degrees is pretty high as it is. There's no doubt that it's possible to do well without a degree, but (again IMO) it's easier nowdays if you have one.

 

[Rocketman]

I design control systems and software strategies to run complex plants, I don't particularly covet the title but I guess my job would be deemed to be an engineers position, but I only have a hnc.

There are some guys repairing the equipment I design who have degrees, in a technician role. I think it's very much dependant on the role you are doing, not an arbitrary qualification.

You know the worst thing daleyd I have worked along side many degree engineers in my years in design offices and to be quite frank the way most of them get to the degree is just from A levels and go straight on the degree and get the qualification. This is where is all falls down. I have know guys who have never been in a toolroom/machine shop. Haven't got clue about manufacturing yet they have a degree in engineering? Basically surely as an engineer you should have a reasonable grasp of what a milling machine, lathe and EDM do?

 

[Big Pete]

You know the worst thing daleyd I have worked along side many degree engineers in my years in design offices and to be quite frank the way most of them get to the degree is just from A levels and go straight on the degree and get the qualification. This is where is all falls down. I have know guys who have never been in a toolroom/machine shop. Haven't got clue about manufacturing yet they have a degree in engineering? Basically surely as an engineer you should have a reasonable grasp of what a milling machine, lathe and EDM do?

Depends what you are going to do as an engineer. There's not much call for that knowledge if you are going to be a stress analyst or a process control guy. Most mech eng courses have some element of design for manufacture, but there isn't much time in a machine shop (if any). Guys who do production engineering do more (obviously) bet even then most have never driven a machine.