Welder power rating for welding large amounts of 5mm+ steel

[mangocrazy]

Hi, I've been looking at various ramp/jack/lift systems to get vehicles off the floor and at a sensible working height, and I quite like the look of the ones designed by http://www.restorationramps.co.uk/ . They sell you the designs/plans and you either weld them up yourself or get someone to do it for you.

When I inquired further about this and asked about suitable welders, I received this reply:

You would need to use a decent MIG welder with an output of 180 amps or above with a wire size of at least 0.8mm, a hobby MIG is not powerful enough.The minimum steel thickness used is 5mm.

My welder is a Clarke 160TM, and I'd say that 5mm steel is right on the limit of its capabilities (if I'm being kind). What welders should I be looking at for a job of this nature? There's a fair bit of metal to stick together, so I'm guessing I'd need a reasonable duty cycle from a welder that can comfortably deal with 5mm steel.

 

[Jim Davey]

I'd go with a cheap stick set for a one off project.

 

[Wozzaaah]

The cheapest option is a stick welder, even a smallish one will handle 5mm all day long.

 

[Kent]

It's gonna get smokey if there's a lot to do with stick!
To be fair if we ain't talking Long runs and you can do it tidy I fully agree
Just remember being a slower process you get more pull

If it were me and I have a big mig this is how I should do it ( outside in a well vented area)
Speed isn't as important as a nice sound weld on such a thing. Nice new 3.2 mm 7018!

 

[mangocrazy]

Basically it's a set of car ramps on steroids, so joining lots of 5mm angle, I suspect. A cheap stick set makes a lot of sense; can also be used outside if needs be without worrying about shielding gas being blown away, I guess. Are the current requirements of stick welders similar to MIG, or does stick use less current?

The seller of the plans does suggest use of a stick welder:

Alternatively, you could use an arc / MMA welder as the cost for the equipment is cheaper than MIG. The skill level is harder to master than Mig, but once mastered it is very rewarding,

Is stick more difficult than MIG?

 

[Bigjoe]

The technique is more difficult to master successfully and I would want to make sure my welds were good quality especially with can relying on them, but as the others state it's a very useful skill being a good mma welder.

Looks an interesting project though

 

[Jim Davey]

Not really harder as such, totally different. But some people take to it easier than others. I'm happy to help with some advice on technique if it helps. But the only real way to know if if will work for you is to try it.

 

[mangocrazy]

OK, thanks for the info. It's not something I'll be doing immediately, probably later this summer. In terms of welder, would the Parweld XTi 160 Inverter Arc Welder do the job adequately? It seems to get a thumbs-up from most people who have them. Would it be up to the job? I could go with a cheap Clarke, but I'd prefer to get something just a bit higher up the food chain...

 

[WorkshopChris]

Good advise Jim,
If you cant get on with rods, could you tack the kit together with you mig at its highest setting, and then have someone local weld it up.
The time in a job like that will be the setting out.
Once its in a lump it can easily be rotated and turned to get good position.

 

[Jim Davey]

OK, thanks for the info. It's not something I'll be doing immediately, probably later this summer. In terms of welder, would the Parweld XTi 160 Inverter Arc Welder do the job adequately? It seems to get a thumbs-up from most people who have them. Would it be up to the job? I could go with a cheap Clarke, but I'd prefer to get something just a bit higher up the food chain...

That set will run a 3.25 Lo-Hy very nicely.

 

[mangocrazy]

Thanks chaps. I've no idea whether I'll get on with stick welding - I'm an absolute beginner in all forms! But I'm willing to learn and have a working brain so hopefully I stand a chance. Certainly stick seems to make sense for this job, and it's a good excuse to buy more toys, so....

If it all goes Pete Tong then I know a couple of really good welders local to me who could take the job on, but I'd prefer to do it myself if possible.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Its easier to do stick welding after MIG than if you had never done any welding previously.

A lot to do with stick welding is visibility and comfort, many newbies get their mask right over the weld and then can't see what they are doing because it's like trying to see through a fog bank, keep your head to the side and visibility is much better.

Comfort is important, learning to rest your arm across the other is a popular way to remove the shakes.

Draw chalk lines on metal or even wood and without any power just practice following them nice and slowly, see how you drift off the line or change your rod angle as your arm position changes and get used to knowing when it's happening.

You will soon get the hang of it and arc welding is a handy skill to have, MIG is great but I still prefer arc when I can use it.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I forgot to mention:

A trick I use if I am teaching anyone to arc weld is to half the rod, using a junior hacksaw gently saw it in half, if careful it will be a clean cut with no flux break off, the bottom half remove 25 mm of flux and you then have two short rods.

You will find these many times easier to use for your first practice, to a non welder a full rod appears to be massive and miles from the job, half rods are so much easier to keep steady and feel comfortable with.

 

[knighty]

I know not many people here like ebay cheap chinese migs.... but I've bought two 180amp TigMig migs and they're pretty awesome especially considering the price tag of £180 delivered! (tigmig is the make... just to be confusing!)

I used the first for about a year before I lent it to someone and they left it out in the rain :-(

bought another one straight away after

use 0.8wire in mine, it's 180amp rated, I've welded for an hour plus almost constantly on max settings and it didn't cut out once (I was expecting it to get hot and cut out)


a friend is a semi-professional welder (professional but it's only a small part of what he does) he's used to expensive welders and he was really impressed with my tigmig when he used it. he's just bought his first portable inverter welder (a cobra iirc) and said he wished he hadn;t because he'd have bought a tigmig instead



ok... normal cheap chinese ebay rules apply... you can get your money back through paypal if it doesn't work when it turns up, but once you're out of paypal protection there's no guarantee... but at a tenth of the price of a big name inverter mig it was worth the risk to me!
(plus cheap enough that when one was left in the rain I could buy another and forget about it)

mask it came with is normal cheap ebay manual plastic mask, pretty worthless but you can get a £20 auto darkening mask which is more than good enough for hobby stuff, £60 gets you a better one if you do more welding. (tho I guess expensive migs don't come with a mask anyway?)

euro torch is pretty cheap but works fine, I must have had about 10 reels of wire through the first mig no problems, but bought a decent benzel torch when I bought the second mig, it's much nicer, but the one it came with was fine to use

I've recommended them to friends who've bought them and have been very happy with them

EBAY LINK (no connection to me)

that's listed as 180amp 60% duty, but it's the same one I have which I ran at 100% for an hour almost constantly (welding a sprocket onto a 4 inch shaft in a hurry)

 

[Badger1bear]

You buy cheap your get cheap results. If you spend good money with a reputable uk seller they will throw in extras that you need including masks, all you need to do is ask.

Hobby welders a are just that, occasionally glue two bits of metal together to get you out of trouble. Any professional welder worth his salt won't entertain one but to the dabble welders out there it's a cheap way for them to dip their toes in the water without shelling much out

 

[cumbriasteve]

I know not many people here like ebay cheap chinese migs.... but I've bought two 180amp TigMig migs and they're pretty awesome especially considering the price tag of £180 delivered! (tigmig is the make... just to be confusing!)

I was over at relatives a couple of weeks ago and had a play with the exact same set, it was impressive and very nice to use, apart from the torch and leads feeling cheap the rest was spot on.

I must add though it was less than an hours use so I felt making any strong claims about it would carry little accuracy, you have obviously used one a lot more so fair play to your comments.

 

[mangocrazy]

That TigMig sounds a handy piece of kit. I've got a place in France and I've left an old SIP Mig down there for occasional use, but it's almost unusable without the well-known mods. Probably an idea to junk it and get a TigMig...

 

[Paul G]

Going off topic slightly, what do you do with those ramps when your not actually using them ?


I made a set of 4 wheel scissor platforms that lift a car 500mm but at least, if nowhere else, they can be stored under the car.

Paul G

 

[Kent]

Going off topic slightly, what do you do with those ramps when your not actually using them ?


I made a set of 4 wheel scissor platforms
that lift a car 500mm but at least, if nowhere
else, they can be stored under the car.

Paul G

Could you fish out a few photos and detail of those please? I am just about to set into a resto on the scooby

 

[Kent]

Stick is funny I remember at college two out of a group of twenty or so got it straight off - others took a good bit of time
None of us had done any before

I was one of those two so I know I wasn't kidding on. I was in the machine shop then so I hadn't even seen someone else doing it