- Thread starter Carl Wilson
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Hopefuldave
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Thanks Richard, at least it looks good...
I'm waiting on some M16 hose connectors for the back of the welder and need to get some braided hose for the cold/pressure side, once I have those I can run through the torch and welder (as yet not powered...
waiting until payday to get a BOC account and a bottle of Argon) to see what kind of flow rate I get - I've seen 2 - 3 litres/min from up to 50 psi mentioned a lot, not sure whether that's right?
Dave H. (the other one)
I'm waiting on some M16 hose connectors for the back of the welder and need to get some braided hose for the cold/pressure side, once I have those I can run through the torch and welder (as yet not powered...
waiting until payday to get a BOC account and a bottle of Argon) to see what kind of flow rate I get - I've seen 2 - 3 litres/min from up to 50 psi mentioned a lot, not sure whether that's right?Dave H. (the other one)
Hopefuldave
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Thanks Hood - probably a Very Good Thing that I got a motor speed controller for the pump! It *claims* 100psi and 5 litre/min :0
The proper pressure gauge may be a week or three arriving, I can guesstimate from the pressure-damper-pop-bottle in the meantime (PV/t and all that Boyle's law stuff), what's a safe max./working pressure to feed into the torch hoses? or do I just wind it up until I get an adequate flow?
Dave H. (the other one)
The proper pressure gauge may be a week or three arriving, I can guesstimate from the pressure-damper-pop-bottle in the meantime (PV/t and all that Boyle's law stuff), what's a safe max./working pressure to feed into the torch hoses? or do I just wind it up until I get an adequate flow?
Dave H. (the other one)
Jlg
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Just adjust till you get the right flow I wouldn't bother with a pressure gauge
Hopefuldave
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Richard.
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Dave the numbers are not worth worrying about too much. You’ll know straight away when you see the return hitting the tank if your in the region.
Yes 45-60psi is about right to get the water going through the head jacket and back down through the power line. 1 - 2 lpm been the usual recommendation on flow but so long as you’ve got what looks like a decent positive flow coming back and your hoses are not bulging under pressure you are where your meant to be. You don’t want it blasting through and you want more than a dribble. At the end of the day your torch wants a continuous flow of water going through it. That’s it. If you achieve that then like I say the numbers don’t matter.
Yes 45-60psi is about right to get the water going through the head jacket and back down through the power line. 1 - 2 lpm been the usual recommendation on flow but so long as you’ve got what looks like a decent positive flow coming back and your hoses are not bulging under pressure you are where your meant to be. You don’t want it blasting through and you want more than a dribble. At the end of the day your torch wants a continuous flow of water going through it. That’s it. If you achieve that then like I say the numbers don’t matter.
Carl Wilson
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Looks fantastic. Really nice job you are making of it.
Hopefuldave
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I did a bit of googling, it look as though most of the torch manufacturers put an upper limit of 50 psi, I should be able to wind the pump back a bit with the speed controller and hold it below that, I hope!
Comparing hoses and bits n bobs, the restriction looks like it'll be the torch and its hoses' bores, plus the flow sensor I'm planning to fit has about a 3 mm bore where it targets the impeller/waterwheel which will restrict the return a bit - I'm hoping it'll have enough flow without going over the limit for pressure...
Carl, I work on the principle that I'd want to be happy with it in my lounge
Example: my phase converter's control unit
(I hadn't fitted the Big Red Switch's handle at the time, but you may see what I'm getting at, despite a few rough edges?)
Dave H. (the other one)
Carl Wilson
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Yes I understand perfectly. I try my best to achieve a high standard of finish. I've tried to do that with the new panel for my lathe to convert it to vfd operation.
Hopefuldave
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After much delay, got a little bit of time to Make Progress - not a lot of it though!
Thermistor siliconed into an 8mm tee, return temperature before the radiator for the measurement of:
The very tip of the stainless case pokes into the water flow, I hope it's enough contact to measure OK... To avoid unwanted restrictions I've used 8mm tees etc. where possible, e.g. so that poking a 5mm thermistor a few mm into the flow won't bung it up. Lurking under one of the top rails is a little flow sensor in the return-to-tank hose which I'll have to calibrate with the electronics to give a flow reading.
Plumbing's coming along, would be finished had I not run out of lockwire... Bodgeit & Quit do it though, big ball of it (0.8mm stainless) for a fiver, a bit cheaper than Jubilee clips
6mm RPVC hose WILL go over 8mm barbs, bit of a bloomin' struggle though - heat and washing-up liquid help a lot! The suction side of the pump and the final stretch back to the tank being low pressure, they're in Vanilla 8mm PVC.
From the back it almost looks posh... Worrying.
Once it's finally plumbed, I'll hook it up to the welder and torch and measure/adjust the flow rate, I got a PWM motor speed controller from EvilBay so I can adjust it for different torches/hoses if it needs it? I *think* I've got the litres/min display worked out
A bit more electrickery to do (and calibrate!) and the front panel to make, I think it's going to be a Fully Instrumented cooler... First things first, lockwire clamp the hoses and measure the flow!
Dave H. (the other one)
Thermistor siliconed into an 8mm tee, return temperature before the radiator for the measurement of:
The very tip of the stainless case pokes into the water flow, I hope it's enough contact to measure OK... To avoid unwanted restrictions I've used 8mm tees etc. where possible, e.g. so that poking a 5mm thermistor a few mm into the flow won't bung it up. Lurking under one of the top rails is a little flow sensor in the return-to-tank hose which I'll have to calibrate with the electronics to give a flow reading.
Plumbing's coming along, would be finished had I not run out of lockwire... Bodgeit & Quit do it though, big ball of it (0.8mm stainless) for a fiver, a bit cheaper than Jubilee clips
6mm RPVC hose WILL go over 8mm barbs, bit of a bloomin' struggle though - heat and washing-up liquid help a lot! The suction side of the pump and the final stretch back to the tank being low pressure, they're in Vanilla 8mm PVC.
From the back it almost looks posh... Worrying.
Once it's finally plumbed, I'll hook it up to the welder and torch and measure/adjust the flow rate, I got a PWM motor speed controller from EvilBay so I can adjust it for different torches/hoses if it needs it? I *think* I've got the litres/min display worked out
A bit more electrickery to do (and calibrate!) and the front panel to make, I think it's going to be a Fully Instrumented cooler... First things first, lockwire clamp the hoses and measure the flow!
Dave H. (the other one)
Hopefuldave
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Nice job Dave.
Bit disappointed you haven’t done any welding on it mate.
Thought you would of at least made your own tank.
Would have looked horrible, stick welded tank - or mig at best....
I'm putting it together so I can have a working TIG, after all?
Really, electrickery, geekiness and metrology are what I do (for the last 30 years, anyway), hence instrumenting it a bit more than most would think appropriate.... And access to the World's Best Skip
Dave H. (the other one)
Hopefuldave
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And the tank was exactly the right size for the case when I cut it down to fit the tank...
Richard.
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Still it looks good.
I build mine a little differently that’s all.
I fabricate everything. The tank, the chassis, the covers, the mounts and even the exchangers. I don’t bother so much with fitting gages and buttons I just get more personal satisfaction from building it completely from scratch.
I build mine a little differently that’s all.
I fabricate everything. The tank, the chassis, the covers, the mounts and even the exchangers. I don’t bother so much with fitting gages and buttons I just get more personal satisfaction from building it completely from scratch.
Hopefuldave
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That may be the difference - I get Deep Joy from reusing / repurposing things, adapting things to do what was never intended (example: laboratory vacuum pump now bleeds brakes and clutches for our cars and bikes), perhaps I'm blessed in that I have far too many years in far too many totally diverse fields... Or it could be a curse, of course.
Dave H. (the other one)
Dave H. (the other one)
Carl Wilson
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I don't think it's s curse. In addition, I think you are right to instrument your cooler with a temp sensor and flow meter.
My thinking on this is that it will provide extremely useful data to anyone else, who like me is contemplating their own design. There seems to be a lot of speculation regarding the numbers surrounding the operation of these coolers, both on manufacturers sites and places like here.
A lot of the designs seem overly conservative, to me at least. I could be wrong, but a lot of the pumping power employed seems excessive and the heat exchangers massively oversized for what they are doing. It will be interesting to see what your instrumented cooler can tell us about that.
I'm very impressed with Richard's approach of fabricating everything. I especially like the idea of making a bespoke heat exchanger.
My thinking on this is that it will provide extremely useful data to anyone else, who like me is contemplating their own design. There seems to be a lot of speculation regarding the numbers surrounding the operation of these coolers, both on manufacturers sites and places like here.
A lot of the designs seem overly conservative, to me at least. I could be wrong, but a lot of the pumping power employed seems excessive and the heat exchangers massively oversized for what they are doing. It will be interesting to see what your instrumented cooler can tell us about that.
I'm very impressed with Richard's approach of fabricating everything. I especially like the idea of making a bespoke heat exchanger.
Hopefuldave
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A bit of progress today, after spending too long hunting my 2" holesaw I gave up, cut a few undersize, then discovered a Noga deburring tool will take a nice even slice off Alupanel! Finished off with a file and wound up with this for the front (a mock-up, a little fettling of misaligned holes still to do and the pastard trim panel for the bottom of the grille):
I even had some of the honeycomb grille left, not sure when but it's bound to come in handy...
After fretting about the pressure needed to push enough coolant through the torch and its 25 foot hoses, I back-flushed and got a nasty green snotty-looking object in the bucket, so ran weakish bleachy water through for half an hour, flushed forwards and back with fresh until it ran clear and the flow improved a bit, happier now
So... it's in working order as a cooler now, still have some electrickery to do for flow-rate and return-temp. meters and alarm (still at the breadboard lash-up stage)and a couple of brackets to make to hold the tank and its lid down etc.... The pump's bloomiin' noisy though, I'll have to make some rubber mounts for it as it's rattling everything around it
I need to find a right-angle 1/8 BSP female to 6mm hose barb for the back of the pressure gauge, but struck lucky in the "pneumatics" box under the bench, BOC 2-gauge regulator (marked "inert gases") with hose barb etc. that I rescued on its way to the World's Best Skip, this seems to be happening!
Payday next week, so I should be able to spare an arm and leg for BOC to set up an account with the local distributor
Dave H. (the other one)
I even had some of the honeycomb grille left, not sure when but it's bound to come in handy...
After fretting about the pressure needed to push enough coolant through the torch and its 25 foot hoses, I back-flushed and got a nasty green snotty-looking object in the bucket, so ran weakish bleachy water through for half an hour, flushed forwards and back with fresh until it ran clear and the flow improved a bit, happier now
So... it's in working order as a cooler now, still have some electrickery to do for flow-rate and return-temp. meters and alarm (still at the breadboard lash-up stage)and a couple of brackets to make to hold the tank and its lid down etc.... The pump's bloomiin' noisy though, I'll have to make some rubber mounts for it as it's rattling everything around it
I need to find a right-angle 1/8 BSP female to 6mm hose barb for the back of the pressure gauge, but struck lucky in the "pneumatics" box under the bench, BOC 2-gauge regulator (marked "inert gases") with hose barb etc. that I rescued on its way to the World's Best Skip, this seems to be happening!
Payday next week, so I should be able to spare an arm and leg for BOC to set up an account with the local distributor
Dave H. (the other one)
