The future of electric vehicle maintenance

[dobbslc]

I wonder if the new Renault 5 is like that?
Nice looking car but probably full of crappy gimmicks.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

None of the information in this thread is relevant to an old Nissan Leaf

They're closer to what I would want an EV to be....basically a 2005 ICE car with a battery and motor instead of an engine.

I don't need disappearing door handles and an info system with all the controls buried so deep it's annoying and unsafe to use!

 

[Nomad]

While I agree, I don't think the emissions are to a decent standard…

But alas, it seems every manufacturer struggles to implement it reliably.

Not a new problem, also not EV specific.

My daily is a mid 90s Nissan (1.6 Sunny engine)
It’s one of the last carb models so carb is super complicated for emissions & mpg (3x electric solenoids, wax stat valving)
It also has a micro-sized jet for the idle circuit.
I bought a set of micro jewellers drill bits many years ago and never found a use for them. They are now in the glovebox with req’d tools so if the jet blocks away from home I can strip the carb roadside in 5 minutes to clear it.
Car is currently running 4 (yes 4!) filters in the fuel line and it still died and left me stranded last time out.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I wonder if the new Renault 5 is like that?

It's definitely an improvement I think....pretty sure it has the button to personalised the safety nonsense too.

The Renault 5 design wise is lovely...the interior is really nice. I don't know why a lot of car makers go for black carpets, black head lining and black seats!

 

[northwest]

None of the information in this thread is relevant to an old Nissan Leaf - they're relatively simple, reliable motors which do what they say on the tin. Bits are readily available for repair, manuals are available, no exotic readers required to diagnose faults and if you can get it charged for free it will pay for itself in next to no time.

Quite heartened to hear that because it really would make financial sense to me, My next step is to find out about insuring one and which model, exactly, to start looking at.

 

[premmington]

Quite heartened to hear that because it really would make financial sense to me, My next step is to find out about insuring one and which model, exactly, to start looking at.

Then find out if the Leaf was sold with a leased battery - some were at the time - if it was - you will get a monthly bill the minute you register the V5C to your address....

Oh Yeah.... People have been caught with this - car dealers who buy them in and just trade out the logbook - would not even know....!

 

[northwest]

Then find out if the Leaf was sold with a leased battery - some were at the time - if it was - you will get a monthly bill the minute you register the V5C to your address....

Thanks for that. I was wondering about just this the other day because we used to lease traction battery packs for the Milk floats back in the day, (we had 28 or thereabouts back in the 70's) Batteries were more than the cost of the float, I remember in the 60's or 70's my father pointed out that a milk float, complete with battery was more expensive than a Rolls. The battery pack was also carefully researched and chosen, it had to get round the Milk round AND get back to base, with just a bit to spare.

 

[julianthegypsy]

You would have thought that after more than a Century, ICE would have got to the pinnacle of their reliability and efficiency, not still behaving like an Austin sidevalve engine.

Austin side valves were predictable and quick and easy to repair and maintain!

 

[julianthegypsy]

It gets better.
No2 son is in lighting for JLR and just last night we were chatting about forthcoming new models.

The LED headlight assembly is not just a 'sealed' item complete with integrated self-levelling features, but like windscreens, is now a structural component.

If the stylists and marketers want to make the usual annual model year changes to lighting, the whole car now has to undergo crash testing.

The stylists and marketers haven't grasped this yet, nor the insurance implications of minor crash vulnerable items like headlights costing so much.

He did tell me the cost to JLR of the headlights for a forthcoming full fat Range Rover. They do many very clever things and are relatively small production volumes, so over £2k each - to JLR.

That equates to about £9k retail!

 

[willie.macleod]

Leaf batteries that were leased will have "Flex" in their V5 model details. You will struggle to find any - they stopped battery leasing for the new style Leafs so it would only be models up to 2017 which are now firmly in the banger money territory and batteries have likely degraded to the extent that the finance company would be liable for replacements (9 bars/75%). The purchase price for the battery dropped as batteries aged to make it easier for the finance companies to offload their liabilities to the owners around 5 years ago or so. Renault were worse for the battery leasing, loads of Zoe around which have leased batteries.

 

[premmington]

Leaf batteries that were leased will have "Flex" in their V5 model details. You will struggle to find any - they stopped battery leasing for the new style Leafs so it would only be models up to 2017 which are now firmly in the banger money territory and batteries have likely degraded to the extent that the finance company would be liable for replacements (9 bars/75%). The purchase price for the battery dropped as batteries aged to make it easier for the finance companies to offload their liabilities to the owners around 5 years ago or so. Renault were worse for the battery leasing, loads of Zoe around which have leased batteries.

Good info above...

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Was there a Dutch company that offered an additional boot battery to extend the leafs range?...can't remember. I remember looking at it for one of the EVs but it was just too expensive.

 

[GRW]

I think maybe the early Leaf played it best as to the strengths of the EV.... I.e. lowish power, shortish range town/city commuter.
No overstretched battery or performance silliness, just commuter low speed, slow acceleration, short commute practicality.
I suppose "the problem" with such common sense - was the lack of "Wow Factor" & kerb appeal to get massed sales (to an "aspirational" buyer who wants a "sexy" & "Top Trumps" lifestyle statement.... even though he's in the same traffic crawl as the guy in a Leaf ).

 

[Blobber]

Was there a Dutch company that offered a boot battery as an extended...can't remember. I remember looking at it for one of the EVs but it was just too expensive.

This one?

 

[Gareth J]

I dont know tbh, but I feel all we do currently is move the emissions bit around. I.e. with EVs, the old argument that if the electric isnt from a sustainable source then the emissions are just formed somewhere upline of the vehicle, combined with environmental build and recycle cost etc etc mean that they dont truly come out much better or perhaps worse than what we currently have.

My e61 has a DPF and EGR - it was in one of the lower emission brackets at the time (only a 520, not the bigger engine). The tailpipe is as clean as the day it rolled off of the line so its not a sooty old diesel of old.

I don't think it's so pessimistic as all that. EVs are, like for like, way more efficient in terms of kWh in vs out. And even if all the electric used to push them along is FF based, the efficiency of a power station is higher than a personal, mobile, FF converter. Add in the fact that the power station can employ static, rather than mobile, emissions cleanup, emission mitigation is better too. Then take into account that, on a given day, an increasing amount of electricity is non fossil fuel based and it's an obvious winner....

Unless you need a LOT of energy storage. Nothing beats the energy density, safety, practicality and relatively ok efficiency of carting a tank of diesel around to burn in an engine. Done well, emissions cleanup on vehicle is excellent. But shoehorning all that into a family car is a recipe for the sorts of reliability issues everyone knows about.

Leave the diesels for the trucks and boats, EVs for nippy town run arounds. Big cars? I don't know!

*However, I'm also trolling about in an early 2000's 4cly diesel BMW. The cold hard facts make it, or things like it, very appealing. I see a low milage 6cyl E46 touring on eBay lately for £8000! I don't know if it's worth that but there's a reason it's desirable.

 

[premmington]

I think maybe the early Leaf played it best as to the strengths of the EV.... I.e. lowish power, shortish range town/city commuter.
No overstretched battery or performance silliness, just commuter low speed, slow acceleration, short commute practicality.
I suppose "the problem" with such common sense - was the lack of "Wow Factor" & kerb appeal to get massed sales (to an "aspirational" buyer who wants a "sexy" & "Top Trumps" lifestyle statement.... even though he's in the same traffic crawl as the guy in a Leaf ).

Thats where an EV "shines" - low weight - low battery capacity - low range - low mileage - low amp charge at home at the right money per Kwh.

Yeah - I would have one - I only use a little car for in town - 1.25miles to workshop and back again.

I am the perfect "lightweight EV car owner" - except - the big except - I got a fleet of loaners (courtesy cars) - Skoda Citigos and VW Ups with 1.0 litre straight petrol engines - they cost less to buy than a BEV - £20 a year tax - I got one Citigo which is tax free.. - Don't ask me how...? - as they are all the same engines - but I don't make the laws for RFL - idiots do...!).

EV (BEVS) would be too expensive to buy in - and could I trust my punters to charge them (no) - I would spend all my time recovering them in.

But low weight town car - in EV form is where they shine....

 

[eddie49]

My next step is to find out about insuring one and which model, exactly, to start looking at.

The cheap ones ( £2k and less ) are Leaf 24, with a 24kWh battery and 50 miles or lower range. Check the "battery health" display, it starts at 12 "bars", less than 7 remaining - don't buy it.
Better, but quite a lot dearer - and much less ugly - are the Leaf 40, with a bigger 40kWh battery.

 

[eddie49]

Was there a Dutch company that offered an additional boot battery to extend the leafs range?...can't remember. I remember looking at it for one of the EVs but it was just too expensive.

Yes, the "Muxsan" battery extender:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/battery-replace-extend-with-muxsan.175073/

 

[AVI_8]

*However, I'm also trolling about in an early 2000's 4cly diesel BMW. The cold hard facts make it, or things like it, very appealing. I see a low milage 6cyl E46 touring on eBay lately for £8000! I don't know if it's worth that but there's a reason it's desirable.

The 6 cylinder diesels of that era are a far more reliable engine, looked after they go on forever and a day, and there’s not a huge difference in fuel economy.

 

[Trevorleach]

None of the information in this thread is relevant to an old Nissan Leaf - they're relatively simple, reliable motors which do what they say on the tin. Bits are readily available for repair, manuals are available, no exotic readers required to diagnose faults and if you can get it charged for free it will pay for itself in next to no time.

My 90yrs old FIL has a 2016 Leaf, and we have had to talk him out of getting a new battery as he was convinced it needed one as the range was down from its original 89 miles to 70 miles, yet he does all of 900 miles a year!
Luckily being an ex mechanic himself I convinced him it was a waste of money, and as he taught me all he knew many years ago he seemed happy with that.