The future of electric vehicle maintenance

[Moose McAlpine]

Thats where an EV "shines" - low weight - low battery capacity - low range - low mileage - low amp charge at home at the right money per Kwh.

EVs peaked with the milk float.

 

[Gareth J]

The 6 cylinder diesels of that era are a far more reliable engine, looked after they go on forever and a day, and there’s not a huge difference in fuel economy.

I know! I've been keeping my eye out for one for ages

 

[brewdexta]

The missus has been commuting either a 120 or 150 mile round trip, depending which site she's working at, in a Leaf, and now the Ford Puma EV for quite a few years. So I don't agree that EVs only place is around town. Maybe a few years ago, but not now.

My Kia has 77kWh battery, and on a warm day will do around 300 miles on a charge. Currently getting about 250 or so.

Charging it on a 150kW fast charger for the first time was interesting. First, it's up to 150kW, depends how many cars are charging at the same time. It started at 50kW but while I went for a coffee and a Greg's, it peaked at just under 90kW, presumably as some cars stopped charging. By the time I had had a snack and pointed percy at the porcelain and took a quick call I had about 40% additional charge and off I went.

I can't remember the cost but not cheap. I don't have any of the various deals sorted yet, but will look into it.

With the bigger battery I will rarely have to charge away from home so not a major issue for me.

 

[Onoff]

Cheer me up why don't you! My EV arrives in a couple of weeks!

It's going to seem weird ONLY going in to garages for Ginsters and wine gums.

 

[Trevorleach]

The 6 cylinder diesels of that era are a far more reliable engine, looked after they go on forever and a day, and there’s not a huge difference in fuel economy.

Any 6 cyl sounds like sex on legs compared to the clatter of the 4 cylinder versions, spend all that money on a car and have it sound like a tractor!

 

[daleyd]

We’ve had a 200 mile range ev as a family barge for 4 years and it’s been brilliant. To suggest they can “only be town cars” is crazy, given it’s easily the most comfortable/quietest motorway cruiser I’ve ever been in. It does the wife’s usual commute (~8 miles each way every day), plus when she works away which is 60-70 mile commute, ferrying the daughter to swimming, tip runs, taken the 4 of us + dog + luggage 120 miles each way on holiday regularly and everything else we’ve asked of it. 40,000 miles, 1 service, two puddle lights replaced under warranty and still only halfway through the second set of tyres. (First set lasted just under 20,000 miles but lots of owners seemed to complain of the oem tyres having less tread depth than usual)

Had range anxiety the first day we had it and never since.

 

[GRW]

We’ve had a 200 mile range ev as a family barge for 4 years and it’s been brilliant. To suggest they can “only be town cars” is crazy, given it’s easily the most comfortable/quietest motorway cruiser I’ve ever been in. It does the wife’s usual commute (~8 miles each way every day), plus when she works away which is 60-70 mile commute, ferrying the daughter to swimming, tip runs, taken the 4 of us + dog + luggage 120 miles each way on holiday regularly and everything else we’ve asked of it. 40,000 miles, 1 service, two puddle lights replaced under warranty and still only halfway through the second set of tyres. (First set lasted just under 20,000 miles but lots of owners seemed to complain of the oem tyres having less tread depth than usual)

Had range anxiety the first day we had it and never since.

Demonstrably they can be more than town cars.... but arguably the tech is far less stressed and more suited - to lower power, lighter duty, commuting type roles. Batteries & the physics involved has always seen batteries do better at low loadings, than at high loadings, and slow charging is kinder as well to the battery - so again "home - to - home" circular route, reasonably local commute..... I don't see it as unreasonable to think that this is the best role for the tech - esp when this is also when it's ability to have its pollution generated elsewhere & not in the urban environment - comes into its own.

 

[Erie Fred]

I think, that if someone like ABB or Siemens would start making standard
drives (inverters) and wheel motors for vehicles, the outcome would be much better.

Drive blown ? Simple troubleshooting, simple to remove & replace.

Local places will be doing UX services (like shops that rebuild starters).
Same with motors, and charge controllers.
Batteries too.
OEM's and Aftermarket can get some traction if there is a 500,000 of the same out there, and start tooling up.

Industry standards will drive down cost's and problems.

 

[daleyd]

Demonstrably they can be more than town cars.... but arguably the tech is far less stressed and more suited - to lower power, lighter duty, commuting type roles. Batteries & the physics involved has always seen batteries do better at low loadings, than at high loadings, and slow charging is kinder as well to the battery - so again "home - to - home" circular route, reasonably local commute..... I don't see it as unreasonable to think that this is the best role for the tech - esp when this is also when it's ability to have its pollution generated elsewhere & not in the urban environment - comes into its own.

Don’t think I’d disagree with much of that, I’m just pointing out that our situation (which I’d say is fairly typical requirement for a family car) hasn't required massive range or performance, and the car has done the job you’d ask of any car, electric or petrol. It’s excelled at comfort, quietness and space. Its easy to drive (my wife doesn’t give a hoot about performance or handling, just wants a car that goes and stops with the least amount of fuss), copes superbly in traffic/town and does just fine on longer journeys.

It’s just “a car” for us, the motive power doesn’t even enter my head now. It’s irrelevant.

 

[Moose McAlpine]

Any 6 cyl sounds like sex on legs compared to the clatter of the 4 cylinder versions, spend all that money on a car and have it sound like a tractor!

I'm very fond of my V6 TDI's noise. I liked the 1.9 TDI i had before but that was a much more agricultural sound.

 

[brewdexta]

Demonstrably they can be more than town cars.... but arguably the tech is far less stressed and more suited - to lower power, lighter duty, commuting type roles. Batteries & the physics involved has always seen batteries do better at low loadings, than at high loadings, and slow charging is kinder as well to the battery - so again "home - to - home" circular route, reasonably local commute..... I don't see it as unreasonable to think that this is the best role for the tech - esp when this is also when it's ability to have its pollution generated elsewhere & not in the urban environment - comes into its own.

Lighter duties? 320bhp and 446 lb-ft with an 800v system that can charge the battery to 60% in 18 mins. It's the fastest I've ever been up Sutton Bank!

Overtaking is a breeze, instant power. It's almost 4 years old and the battery isn't showing any signs of degradation. I think the body will rot before the battery is an issue.

Each to their own but all that with a 2 year servicing interval, I think its up to heavier duties

 

[northwest]

No aftermarket parts for this motor. Volvo won't sell Guides, only a bare head. For 2 Grand. Nett. Trade!

Can't you just line the guides, used to do quite a lot of this back in the day, ream out for the liner then push a ball bearing down the guide with an air hammer, worked a treat. As far as the rest of the bits are concerned, aren't there any aftermarket manufacturers for springs and such? Can always get the cam reground.

 

[Ubique]

Any 6 cyl sounds like sex on legs compared to the clatter of the 4 cylinder versions, spend all that money on a car and have it sound like a tractor!

Lightweight...
Go V8 or go home.

 

[jmp49]

I like a nice v8 burble and have a couple stashed in the shed when the vehicles for them are ready, but I'm also sat here near our seat mii ev with 66,000km on it now. I cant comment on maintenance, its only ever been in for new pads once, its on its second set of tyres, and it went in for a "service" that was cheap but essential because it also went in for a battery capacity check under the terms of the 80% capacity manufacturer's guarantee. I cant comment on how good the dealers repair service is as nothings actually gone wrong with it yet.
I'm quietly hoping it falls below the threshold for a replacement pack just before its out of warantee, I think at 5 years old.
We've fed it wiggly electrons from home charging only mostly or the odd free top up at macdonalds or a shop on their free charger while shopping there when it was out and about. At home I'd estimate a 1/4 of that charging power comes from the sun as we have 3kw of solar, although more to go up this year... We live 3/4 hrs drive from the nearest big place with shops, so not much about town driving. In cold weather we cant hoof it at 130km/hr for that journey on the autoroute and drive round a bit when there and get home on one charge, but we can if we dawdle about 110-120. In summer it gets the naughty stick. Its speed limited to about 87mph I think, I cant get more out of it than that anyway. It goes round corners ok because of the weight low down. It surprises a lot of people because they expect a old lady to be driving it slowly then suddenly it accelerates rather briskly.

We're also wondering when we can declare the car has outright paid for itself in saved fuel costs vs owning a diesel that we hypothetically got for free, I think its got another 2 years yet. I dont remember reaching that with any petrol/diesel car without including the resale value at that point.

Lets face it, we're not really discussing EV specific problems apart from a few people who are just using it as a stick to reinforce their anti ev point of view, but the enshittification of the entire motor industry and its design for disposibility in terms of design choices, electrical and computer based components.
Modern cars, when everything is new and perfect are normally marvels of technology. When everything isnt perfect, they can be a nightmare to diagnose and repair because that's how the industry conciously designs them & dealer support once they have the money is hit and miss, its either great and theyre reactive, or theyre useless and dont want to know. Why would we hold ev's up to any different standard for expectations of it? Its not a ev problem, its a dealership problem

Also memories of working for GM when the ecotec launched, and suddenly they were all in dealerships with cambelt tensioner failure and wrecked heads. And there were owners of brand new petrol vauxhall's waiting 6 months for a replacement head or engine because they had ran out of spares allocated the dealer networks, and were diverting engines from production to try and backfill for the issue.

Oh I forgot, it did have a problem, the flap that covers the charging point broke off at the hinge. We enquired and it was 150e to replace it, but I sank some stainless perforated sheet across the broken bits using a soldering gun to melt it in , then pasted over the area with araldite and its been grand since. I personally think someone either forgot to close it and drove about, or they plugged it in with the cable sat on the flap to some awkward charge point and the weight broke the plastic. I mean, that's a EV problem I guess, although its not. Plenty of IC cars have fuel flap's break off due to abuse.

 

[Ubique]

How can you tell someone is vegan an EV driver?

Don't worry, they'll tell you....

There is a scheme at VWG dealerships where you can lease a new vehicle for six months (basically to get the throughput up so the dealership gets the 'sales' bonus) at very favourable rates, they added an EV discount to encourage takeup (ultimately to boost the numbers of 'nearly new' used cars they had available).
I've worked for two dealer groups, Sytner & Parkway, neither have any EV's registered on the staff lease schemes. If the people that sell, maintain & repair them would rather have something else - isn't it worth considering why?

 

[GRW]

Can't you just line the guides, used to do quite a lot of this back in the day, ream out for the liner then push a ball bearing down the guide with an air hammer, worked a treat. As far as the rest of the bits are concerned, aren't there any aftermarket manufacturers for springs and such? Can always get the cam reground.

Older Cast Iron Tractor heads get reamed & lined yes (some have options of 0.003" or 0.015" oversize stem valves instead to compensate for wear)....so in theory yes - but in practice it doesn't seem to be the case for Alloy Head Castings.
Yes there is aftermarket.... but it takes quite a while to "catch up" to released engines - plus it'll be the engines most widely used, with the biggest unit sales - that get Aftermarket components first (& Volvo's own unit 1.5L 3-Cyl - ain't one of those).
The Mfrs are restricting internal engines parts release themselves (Volvo arent the only ones who dont list Valve Guides as a seperate Part), less & less Garages want to repair engines (too risky & demand skills their people dont have), & places like where I work seem to be getting fewer as those with the Manual Machining skills & technical understanding - have got way past retirement age.
(An Engine Parts Supplier Rep who comes in whose 60-ish & been around the game all his life, covers a huge sales area.... reckons that my boss (46) is probably the youngest Owner/Operator of an Engine Overhaul Engineering Workshop in the UK today).

 

[Ubique]

I was involved in the maintenance of quite a few Volvo Penta engined Gensets overseas, every single component was available - the smallest engine was 12 litre though...
M-B cars will only sell complete heads or 'some' components, you can't buy all the components to refurb a cylinder head, likewise, if you need an engine, they only come fully dressed, you can't buy without (most of) the anciliiaries. From memory, only the charge alternator, AC compressor flexplate or DMF get swapped.

 

[jmp49]

Ubique, I mostly drive a beaten 1980's renault master pickup powered by a sofim s8u diesel asthmatron that even the gypsies wouldnt been seen dead driving, the ev I'm *usually* a passenger because my wife is the worlds worst passenger and I hate shopping anyway so its her car in reality, but my mrs broke her ankle over xmas, so I've been afforded the job of being the chauffer and I'd taken it out for a few spins before solo out of curiosity anyway. Really I like the EV because its the only one of our myriad of vehicles I never have to touch, and that's worth its weight in gold. It reminds me of her car she had when I first met her except with more acceleration, that was a hyundi atos. Little go cart, not monsterous top speed, but zippy and steered like a go kart, everyone always thought it was a joke till they were fighting to stay with it in some tight lanes behind...

For considering why they dont choose ev, well, because theyre more expensive is the obvious elephant in the room there. Leasehire is a mugs game tilted to the dealership at the start without expecting them to shell out extra for a more expensive but less sexy appearing car. I always remember that vauxhall's leasehire for their company car scheme was ran out of GE capital fleet finance, & GM owned vauxhall & GM also owned GE capital fleet. So they were selling cars with definite buyback in known condition/mileage, making a small profit on the arrangement, and also making a larger profit by dint of ultimately owning the finance side of it completely too and winning at both ends of the stick. And shifted a load more stock that would just be rusting away in airfield parkings unsold otherwise. They weren't doing anyone but themselves massive favours...

GRW, are you telling me you dont get a head with no spare guides in to sort, hit the part books and find something near, and machine it to suit? I bet you would if it was for your personal car and you could do it out of hours
Astra are alloy heads and you can buy seats/guides etc to sort that, but the aftermarket has caught up like you say. Theyre really close to the size I needed for a gpz1100 the other week though, they seem to have disappeared out of son's new parts stash

 

[bricol]

Any 6 cyl sounds like sex on legs compared to the clatter of the 4 cylinder versions, spend all that money on a car and have it sound like a tractor!

And then when comparing cars at the Dodge dealership in Houston, the V6 sounds like a Ford Focus, but the V8

IN think my neighbours must like it too as no one has yet complained bout my 6am starts

 

[willie.macleod]

The biggest problem with EVs for me isn't the cars, it's the dire charging situation. Last week I took one of my employers EVs on a 200 mile round trip which I do most weeks, when I got back to my base at night the first slow charger I arrived at was out of service. Then the second slow charger around the corner was out of action. The third charger I was going to leave it on was a rapid - penalty fine if you stay for more than an hour - but better than the car being out of service for the next user in the morning - but it decided to do an update just as I arrived at it so it was out of action. Across the road are another two rapid chargers - one has a dead RFID scanner and the other refused the cars RFID card. The final slow charger across the road refused to work with the car, kept on shutting down the charge after a few seconds. I think that's a car specific issue but that's for another day, both the card and the cable work ok elsewhere.

In the end I waited for the rapid that was doing the update to finish and left the car on that overnight. It just goes to show how poor the charging network is. These on the whole are new chargers, throughout the islands here we are seeing a 50% out of service rate and they aren't being fixed in a timely manner, we're talking months of downtime. Tens of thousands of grant money for chargers which don't work, often because of network connectivity issues. Chargeplace Scotland are on the way out and Scottish Power are taking over here but as they installed most of these chargers I don't think much will improve.

My brother in law has exactly the same car as my wife drives, a 2016 Leaf. He lives in council housing with no chance to install any charger at home. Although he lives close to Edinburgh and does short trips he would have saved a fortune by never buying an EV and going with a small petrol car instead - his is rapid charged to death at expensive rates with cells rarely balanced or 12v properly charged. We just stick ours on charge the second it arrives home and it does c. 40 miles a day pretty much every day. No point it taking it off the island any more, fuel costs on rapid chargers these days are comparable to the Discovery or Volvo with the additional issues of broken chargers everywhere. Don't buy an EV unless you can charge at home or work..... I don't like how those in places of authority seem content to live with this broken system which is inevitably going to lead to even worse splits in society have/have nots with those fortunate enough to have driveways getting cheaper electricity than those without.