synergic/semi synergic pulse mig

[BrokenBiker]

buying a new mig in next few days.

its no secret i am a fan of hitbox, cheap, cheerful and my TIG is faultless, so its no surprise im going for a hitbox mig. specifically the 250 amp single pulse inverter. i dont use it to put food on the table so i really cant see the point in spending thousands when in reality if the mig failed, i would just turn on the TIG and carry on so for just over 200 quid i think the hitbox will do for me.

every mig ive had til now, transformer or inverter has always been the usual voltage and wire feed settings, but this one has voltage and amps, plus a selection for whether you are using co2, ar/co2, or doing MMA, lift tig or gasless, and the videos i have seen show the amps knob also altering the voltage, so does this make it a sem synergic machine?

there is no input to tell it what thickness wire you are using, what thickness or type fo steel you are welding or anyhting like that but it seems to set the voltage based off the amps you want, then you can tweak the voltage either way with the other knob.

my current mig is a typical transofrmer with 1/2 min/max for the voltage so not entirely used to the machine picking settings for me, however i am going to need a decent mig again soon (foreshadowing) so ive just gone and got a bottle of 5% mix gas and ordered a 5kg reel of A18, gasless can stay on my transformer for now.

it comes with an mb24 euro torch which i think may be a bit clumsy for the stuff i do, so i will probably by a longer mb15 as well

 

[eddie49]

this one has voltage and amps, plus a selection for whether you are using co2, ar/co2, or doing MMA, lift tig or gasless, and the videos i have seen show the amps knob also altering the voltage, so does this make it a semi synergic machine?

there is no input to tell it what thickness wire you are using, what thickness or type of steel you are welding or anything like that but it seems to set the voltage based off the amps you want, then you can tweak the voltage either way with the other knob.

If it is semi-synergic, the "Amps" dial may have numbers from 0.5 to 8 indicating millimetres of metal thickness. It could also have numbers from 0 to 10, showing the current range when using the welder in MMA mode.
Another clue that would indicate semi-synergic plus "trimming" of the pre-programmed values is that the Volts dial will be marked with zero in the centre, then anti-clock for "-V" and clockwise for "+V", or a percentage, or a low value such as 1v or 2v up or down.


Hopefully there will be a "Man" or "Syn" selection somewhere too. In manual mode, the Amps dial will only control wirespeed and the Volts dial will be low when anticlock and maximum when fully clockwise.

Just guessing, a link to a picture of the front panel would help.....

 

[BrokenBiker]

The volts and amps dials dont have numbers, they are endlessly adjustable and show a number on the panel that relates to the adjustment being made, but when the 'amps' is adjusted, the voltage changes with it...when the voltage changes the amps doesnt seem to change which confused a bit as I would assume it would all be linked but I guess that is their way of trimming the voltage. It is advertised as a 20-250amp welder, however as I would need 1mm wire for the full 250amps I will likely never use it above 180ish on 0.8mm wire...anything thicker than about 5mm that needs to be strong im going to stick weld it anyway.

I will point out, im not concerned either way if its semi synergic or not, I will take a few hours to figure out how each setting affects the other, what settings it likes for the common things I weld and note them down, Just never used anything even remotely 'modern' with a mig, its always been the old school volts and wire speed.

I have no doubts it will weld just fine, Infact I have just ordered it with a new argon reg and 5kg of wire as coincidentally I have just blown my transformer mig up again trying to weld a bar to a locking wheel nut...got 3 off, 4th one and ive got no wire feed or arc so its going in the skip and ill finish the job when the hitbox turns up.

Picture of front panel as requested

 

[eddie49]

That does sound very confusing! As you said, some test welds on various thicknesses will clarify the real-world settings needed.
The "Amps" digital encoder knob and display is probably the main control, and for any given setting of that one, the "Volts" may trim it up or down.
With no apparent Manual mode, let's hope the synergic program is accurate and usable, and/or that the optional trimming - if available - is wide enough to get good results. You can also try to "cheat" a poorly-programmed value by selecting CO2, Mix, or Flux, which may have different volts/wirespeed ratios.
From the picture of the front panel, it looks like it may have variable inductance too.

 

[BrokenBiker]

looking at the limited videos available for it...it seems you set this backwards to a normal mig...for instance, on the mig ive just blwon up i would set the voltage roughly for what i was welding, then crank the wire speed up til it pushed the torch back, ease it back down til that pushing stopped then thats me set, the rest of the control is done with my travel speed...i like hot and fast...

but this appears to need to be set based off the amps you want, which also directly effects wire speed, and the voltage will get set by the machine, but then you have full range of adjustment on the voltage regardless of what it initially set it as...which i think means i can still set it the way i want, just set the 'amps' and then fiddle with the voltage for a hotter or colder weld.

im sure i will get to grips with it pretty quickly, and like you say a few welds on various common thicknesses will give me an idea of how close it is and how much it may need trimming.

im not 100% sure, but i cant see a button or setting for pulse, so i think it may actually be permanently set to pulse which agian, wont be an issue just something to get used to

itll be here tuesday, but im not picking up gas til next weekend, but i have half a spool of gasless taken out of the dead mig and it comes with a kilo of gasless as well so i can finish the job i was doing and get to grips with it with the gasless, then pick gas up saturday and stick the soild wire in. may make a little cart to hold the mig and tig, both bottles and maybe leave space to perch a plasma on top eventually too as a little project to get into how it welds

 

[tom2207]

make sure the burn back is adjustable ,,, ive had a bad run with a semi synergic welder recently without an adjustable arc force or burnback , ,, and to be honest I wouldnt take one as a gift ,,,, oxford 301 , or 300 ,,, transformer based , but its a farmers welder if ever there was one ,,,,

 

[BrokenBiker]

make sure the burn back is adjustable ,,, ive had a bad run with a semi synergic welder recently without an adjustable arc force or burnback , ,, and to be honest I wouldnt take one as a gift ,,,, oxford 301 , or 300 ,,, transformer based , but its a farmers welder if ever there was one ,,,,

not sure i saw anything about burn back, but the few videos ive seen of them welding it seems to leave about half inch of wire out the nozzle. it may be a setting, im not sure.

i know the last welder i had with adjustable burnback was basically useless and made little difference, but that was a CWS and their first attempt at 'making' (supplying) a welder under their own name

 

[BrokenBiker]

That does sound very confusing! As you said, some test welds on various thicknesses will clarify the real-world settings needed.
The "Amps" digital encoder knob and display is probably the main control, and for any given setting of that one, the "Volts" may trim it up or down.
With no apparent Manual mode, let's hope the synergic program is accurate and usable, and/or that the optional trimming - if available - is wide enough to get good results. You can also try to "cheat" a poorly-programmed value by selecting CO2, Mix, or Flux, which may have different volts/wirespeed ratios.
From the picture of the front panel, it looks like it may have variable inductance too.

just noticed, there is a manual mode...you select whether you want the dial to read m/min or amps in mig mode...m/mm is fully manual adjustment like a normal mig

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

On my Kemppi there's a dial for thickness being welded...when in synergetic mode the second dial acts as a trim adjustment.

 

[BrokenBiker]

On my Kemppi there's a dial for thickness being welded...when in synergetic mode the second dial acts as a trim adjustment.

i dont think this is fully synergic, it calls itself 'automatic mode' where you set the amps and it gives you the voltage to get those amps, but with full adjustment available to trim the voltage.

its probably just something undiagnosed in me but its new type of 'setting the welder' so just asking questions to get my head around it really

 

[BrokenBiker]

ive also just noticed it says it comes with a graphite liner for ally welding...ive never mig welded ally, is it just a case of swap the wire and liner?wire seems expensive, but might buy a 2kg spool of 5356 'just incase'

 

[tom2207]

ive also just noticed it says it comes with a graphite liner for ally welding...ive never mig welded ally, is it just a case of swap the wire and liner?wire seems expensive, but might buy a 2kg spool of 5356 'just incase'

and gas 100% argon

 

[BrokenBiker]

and gas 100% argon

ok, didnt realise that but i have that anyway, just a case of swapping bottles.

also, another question i should probably know the answer too, but ive only eyer used V groove rollers...this welder comes with V and U...whats the difference? are the U for ally?

 

[tom2207]

ok, didnt realise that but i have that anyway, just a case of swapping bottles.

also, another question i should probably know the answer too, but ive only eyer used V groove rollers...this welder comes with V and U...whats the difference? are the U for ally?

yep , its so you dont crush the softer alloy wire , sometimes they may be serrated too so less pressure gets grip on the wire.

 

[BrokenBiker]

yep , its so you dont crush the softer alloy wire , sometimes they may be serrated too so less pressure gets grip on the wire.

that makes sense why the U rollers are in 1.0/1.2 then...the V groove rollers are the usual 0.6/0.8 that im used to.

may take a while before i get round to ally welding with it...45 quid for a 2kg spool of wire when i have nearly 100 meters of 5356 and 4043 each for the tig is telling me i will probably buy a spool at some point just incase something happens and i cant use the tig, but unlikely to use the mig on ally unless i have to

 

[tom2207]

that makes sense why the U rollers are in 1.0/1.2 then...the V groove rollers are the usual 0.6/0.8 that im used to.

may take a while before i get round to ally welding with it...45 quid for a 2kg spool of wire when i have nearly 100 meters of 5356 and 4043 each for the tig is telling me i will probably buy a spool at some point just incase something happens and i cant use the tig, but unlikely to use the mig on ally unless i have to

1.2 will be for self shield flux wire ,,, same reasons , but the wire is slightly larger diameter

 

[BrokenBiker]

1.2 will be for self shield flux wire ,,, same reasons , but the wire is slightly larger diameter

I've only ever run 0.8/0.9 self shield and always used the v groove rollers.

Ill probably keep a kilo spool of it laying g around but doubt I'd use it much

 

[roofman]

To be fair good results can be had from spooled ally welding, arnt those big alloy back wagons made with alloy mig welding and they look decent welds..yes i know much bigger machines but same process.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I have small rolls of ali, stainless and cusi kicking about...they don't get used very often but have come in very handy.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Ok, its here...haven't picked up gas yet but couldnt resist a few beads to try and figure the settings out and its easier than I thought...

0.8mm gasless (SIP) on some roughly cleaned 5mm plate...

Weld 1 is 150a displayed with 15.5V
2 is 150 displayed @16.5V
3 is 150 displayed at 18.5V
4 is 180 displayed @ 16.5V
5 ia 180 displayed @ 18.5V
6 is 200 displayed @ 20.0V

Very quick little welds as im in the middle of other things but will have a proper play on weekend when ive got gas and 5kg of solid wire.

This one was flat out, 250amps at 23.8v, both dials topped out and im impressed that it ran on a 13amp plug without so much as a sniff of a blown fuse.

Ignoring the poor lighting and the fact I cant weld, its not a bad machine.

So the adjustment is easy. You set the 'amps' based on material thickness and then it gives you a predetermined voltage range you can choose from. Less voltage gives me a narrower more humped weld, more voltage sinks the weld deeper and wider...as you go up the amperage, you are able to choose higher voltages.

It's not exactly the welder i ordered, but it is a 250amp mig although doesnt have a setting for 1mm solid wire, only 1mm flux core, 2 settings for different 1.2mm ally wires, a setting for 0.8 solid with co2, 0.8 solid with 'mix' and then 0.8 gasless im using now.

Oh and mma and lift tig modes.

It says its a single pulse welder, but there no option to turn that on or off so its either permanent or they lied, but I dont really care as im not nearly good enough to be able to use that properly anyway. Felt like a normal inverter mig to me.

I'm not a fan of the torch...it said it came with an mb24 style torch, but its a 15, no biggie I wanted a smaller torch, but the angle of the Swan neck is weird, very hard to get comfy compared to my last mig...I will just buy another torch though, its euro connection, or juat get used to this one.

All in all, first impressions are good. Its got some brackets to make on weekend as well as the last locking wheel nut I need to get off my mother's car so will have a decent play then and I suppose I'd best make a cart for the pair of welders now from the box section left over from the welding table