Support for copper kitchen worktop?

[hotponyshoes]

I would like to make a bar top / kitchen worktop from copper.

I don't want to end up with the 'hammered finish look but rather a brushed finish so to avoid the dents I am looking to use 3mm+ thickness. This is obviously ridiculously expensive and very heavy.
On the up side, there are joints that need welding so that would be easier on thicker stock.

To reduce the cost I am thinking that if the copper could be bonded tightly to a backup of cheaper material (e.g. steel) it would have the same dent resistance as a thicker sheet of copper at a much lower cost.

I have tested a few small samples and they are far too noisy to use when putting things down on them. The worktop also needs to be fixed down somehow, and not sag/deflect when a person sits on it etc.

Builder mates are saying 1" thick sheet of mdf and paint it with pva to make it water resistant. Or 3/4" marine ply and not treat it at all.
They also say stick the copper directly to the mdf with silicone. (This is not really an option as I think it's going to be easier to fit it all into place and weld up last)

I know most standard kitchen worktops are plastic coated chipboard and they hold up fine so I suppose I could just use loft type flooring or something or even cheap kitchen worktop but I can't help thinking it should be a bit better quality than that?

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Seen moisture resistant mdf used to good effect with ss.

Workbench in the garage is norml mdf and I aquired it from a leaky garage. Its held up fine too.

25mm thick

 

[hotponyshoes]

Yea I have seen mdf on the underside of commercial catering stainless tables.

Seen medical tables with nylon type material underneath.

I know they would all be expected to last 10yrs+ but I would like to make it a 'lifetime version

 

[gaz1]

a word of warning copper dents and scratches more easily than you may think it will do

i should know i can fit copper roofs

now a bar top id use the method of rounding it for the bar edges id also use silicone as it will allow the top to move and flex as it heats up and cools down pva would be solid

for the board id use moisture resistant mdf and round its edges or one edge use foam underneath the copper or you will scratch the copper sheet

 

[gaz1]

Yea I have seen mdf on the underside of commercial catering stainless tables.

Seen medical tables with nylon type material underneath.

I know they would all be expected to last 10yrs+ but I would like to make it a 'lifetime version

then go for a plastic board then it will last a lot longer

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Do you hold ibiza style foam parties in your kitchen?

If not MR MDF will be fine.

Seal it up for peace of mind before fitting copper.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Well, when I first got an ultrasonic cleaning bath I took that into the kitchen, filled with hot tap water, put half a bottle of washing up liquid in it and turned it on. Nothing seemed to be happening so I went out to the shed to get the bit I wanted to clean and the kitchen was knee deep in it by the time I came back.
Managed to get most of it out the back door with a leaf blower before she came home but the house was all sticky for weeks.

I suppose if the worktop is sealed against the back edge the support can't really get wet.

I tried the nylon type stuff, looks a lot like cheap chopping board but silicone and epoxy won't stick to it.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Well, when I first got an ultrasonic cleaning bath I took that into the kitchen, filled with hot tap water, put half a bottle of washing up liquid in it and turned it on. Nothing seemed to be happening so I went out to the shed to get the bit I wanted to clean and the kitchen was knee deep in it by the time I came back.
Managed to get most of it out the back door with a leaf blower before she came home but the house was all sticky for weeks.

Whoops. Mr bean moment there.
Your face must have been a picture when you walked back in.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Strange thing was that it was not still coming out of the machine when I came back in.
I was more confused than anything as I had no idea where it had come from

 

[MattF]

I'd be inclined to use contact adhesive rather than silicone. Easier to get an even spread of adhesive, and that stuff has some flexibility. Thickness wise on the copper, it's going to suffer dents whether you use thin or thick stuff.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I have been messing about with it and at 3mm it doesn't dent from the normal moving stuff around.
If you drop something heavy with a sharp edge (granite chopping board) it will dent or even cut in with a burr on the side of the cut.
Damage like that could be welded back up if required but obviously not if I glue it down to something.

 

[MattF]

Have you ever, upto just, actually dropped a granite chopping board onto a worktop? When you say weld, exactly what process will you be using for joints & repairs?

 

[hotponyshoes]

No. Only damage on my laminate worktop is from putting hot stuff (soldering irons and stuff that should not be in the kitchen) on it.
Previous I had a beach/butcher block type which needed waxing every week.

Practice welds have been tig, tight fit and no filler.
I need to cut some thin strips off the bits I have to try butt welds but I need some thinner sheets a 3mm might be a bit much for my guillotine

 

[MattF]

If you're going to be folding the sheet over the backing panel at the front, just skip adhesive and screw down with brass screws at the rear of the panel. The fold will hold it down at the front edge. You'll obviously risk any slight deformation causing the panel to bounce a bit that way though. At least that way, worst you'll do is just scorch the MDF backing when you use the TIG.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

. The worktop also needs to be fixed down somehow, and not sag/deflect when a person sits on it etc.

Don't allow that, it's unhygienic..........

But I really think you need to do some market research. First, find a pub with copper topped tables. Second, order beer. Third, closely examine underside of said table - note - this is NOT the same as sliding under there after beer(s) have taken hold. Fourth, measure thickness of said substrate, having remembered to take calipers with you.

Just a thought....... Coat - jacket.

 

[angellonewolf]

Don't allow that, it's unhygienic..........

But I really think you need to do some market research. First, find a pub with copper topped tables. Second, order beer. Third, closely examine underside of said table - note - this is NOT the same as sliding under there after beer(s) have taken hold. Fourth, measure thickness of said substrate, having remembered to take calipers with you.

Just a thought....... Coat - jacket.

and dont forget you need plenty of reseach mite cost a bit but would be worth it

 

[zzr1200]

Previous I had a beach/butcher block type which needed waxing every week.

And you'll still need your butchers/chopping block as you can't prepare food on a copper surface as you could contaminate the food and poison yourself.

That's why all copper cookware had a tinned surface in contact with food....

Anyway a butchers block should be scrubbed and cut back to a clean surface when necessary, you'll never see a true butcher block waxed...

 

[Ashley Burton]

Sounds like a PITA if I'm honest!

I've got MDF under my galvanised steel work bench, Works perfectly well. I believe I fixed the 2mm sheet down with grab adhesive?!

 

[dobbslc]

Don't allow that, it's unhygienic..........

But I really think you need to do some market research. First, find a pub with copper topped tables. Second, order beer. Third, closely examine underside of said table - note - this is NOT the same as sliding under there after beer(s) have taken hold. Fourth, measure thickness of said substrate, having remembered to take calipers with you.

Just a thought....... Coat - jacket.

Also lean on it with bare arms for a while, I did this once in a pub and within 10 minutes I could taste copper in my mouth!
Really unpleasant and lasted for a few days. Some kind of osmosis?

 

[pedrobedro]

Well, when I first got an ultrasonic cleaning bath I took that into the kitchen, filled with hot tap water, put half a bottle of washing up liquid in it and turned it on. Nothing seemed to be happening so I went out to the shed to get the bit I wanted to clean and the kitchen was knee deep in it by the time I came back.

Brother in law read about powder build up in the washing machine and how to get rid of it by running it empty on a boil wash with some bleach added. He set it going and went about his other jobs then went out into the garden and the path at the side of the house was 2 feet deep in thick suds and the wind was blowing it all over the street.

I would use the worktop already in the kitchen if I was going to put some sheet over the top of something.