Theres 2 issues with that.
1, I need to live long enough.
2, Nothing like this going to last 30 or 50 years. It will require all sorts of maintenance in the intervening period. Even at DIY level. Thats all more cost.
- Thread starter Onoff
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Theres 2 issues with that.
1, I need to live long enough.
2, Nothing like this going to last 30 or 50 years. It will require all sorts of maintenance in the intervening period. Even at DIY level. Thats all more cost.
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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I wouldn't go expecting Chinese inverters or panels to last that long. In fact I think it would be very prudent to ultra insulate and not rely on the future availablity of PV kit and spares from China. Same goes for the raw materials used in EVs.
Imagine, several years down the line when lots of people are needing new battery packs and none are available. At least we'll be able to pile all the dead Tesla's up to slow the Russian tanks down!
Investment in passive technologies & home grown renewables is imho the best route.
DAPPH
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There are no pockets in a shroud .. spend it whilst you can . Even in 10 yrs time it's likely to have paid for itself .
The ground source heating system at Faculty of Law ( ?) Reading university 's Syston ( sp ) site was put in about 1964 it's still going 57 years later . When I last looked at it on line it about 9 yrs ago it was still going strong . Just tried to find it again but I got swamped with adverts for GSH & ASH
IIRC the system is nearly 200 mtrs of 18/18 stainless steel pipework in a 6 foot deep zig zag trench , it's had a couple of new pumps & other above surface things like the heat exchangers but the piping is all original .
Kayos
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The ground array in a modern system has a lifespan of 100 years, I suspect this is just a nice round number, however unless the heat load requirement changes then it will work for that long
Kayos
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Drilling and trenching, I pay a good rate and it's currently £41 per metre drilled and loop installed
A big job with 62 deep boreholes and artesian issues is projected to cost north of £1million just for drilling
I wouldn't go expecting Chinese inverters or panels to last that long. In fact I think it would be very prudent to ultra insulate and not rely on the future availablity of PV kit and spares from China. Same goes for the raw materials used in EVs.
Imagine, several years down the line when lots of people are needing new battery packs and none are available. At least we'll be able to pile all the dead Tesla's up to slow the Russian tanks down!
Investment in passive technologies & home grown renewables is imho the best route.
Indeed. You see people talking of payback of 7-10 years and the like. Thats great if nothing ever goes wrong. Thats not realistic. You have a bunch of cheap chinese crap, and a load of electronics which will inevitably fall over at some point and be unsupported.
If i do some DIY system, it really needs to have no electronics. This im sue wll prove to be most systems undoing longer term.
I can dig trenches. Thats not rocket science.
So, with no limitations on land, and all labour my own, the next question is, what would be a budget cost for parts only for a 3 bed detached?
Kayos
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Unless you have a few spare acres you won't have room for slinkies, not a properly designed system anyway
3 bed semi is going to need 10 or so kw, depending on ground conductivity and geology budget on 1 or 2 boreholes so £60k is a good estimate
There's a reason 99.99% of ground source is shared loop and commercial, the reason is cost
Kayos
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No, with boreholes yes but unless you live in a tiny, well insulated house you will not have the area for an array. It isn't just array area either, pressure drops are a huge factor with slinkies
Onoff
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Gareth J
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I wouldn't worry drastically. There are varying quality Chinese brands, same with most products. A cheap(ish) Chinese inverter I've got has performed faultlessly for 5years and outperformed the Austrian Fronius here (though that's probably mostly due to panel angle). Anyway, that doesn't really mean anything but what is relevant is that replacement costs are dropping rapidly. So even if the lifespan is halved, a Chinese inverter was probably half the cost of the European one in the first place and its replacement will be cheaper too. Fitting costs make it sensible to spend more on better quality in the first instance but if you're going DIY, it's not easy to rule out some of the reasonable Chinese stuff, especially if it's just because it's Chinese.
Gareth J
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The infrastructure for ground source can be staggering. I considered a two property project with a large pond fed by a decent flowrate stream. Even though everything added up in terms of energy requirements and it was all pretty close to each other, the rough cost we worked out for installation was staggering and, even with the commercial RHI, the payback wasn't swift. Things might be different if heating oil stays at £1 a go but even then, my gut feeling is that spending the money on EWI, MVHR and a few logs is better value long term.
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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Please, tell me where you can get it for that!
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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China has a go at Taiwan, we side with the US. China cuts off the flow of all goods irrespective of quality.
Gareth J
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Sorry, I meant to say north of £1!
Don't hold me to this but, if you can, I think it's worth holding out for a bit. On a 3mile journey to pick up some material this morning I passed two oil trucks. That's not normal. People are worried and demand is high. But crude prices are falling, and the weather is warming, once all the worry-beans have stocked up their tanks, I reckon things will calm down. 'Tis turbulent times though, so if someone else sticks their oar in and Russia's oil production is reduced, maybe £1.x will look like a bargain after all!
Gareth J
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Maybe! Better get a cheap inverter while you still can?
gaz1
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as ive mentioned already for those with large pools
the best aproach is to warm the water fast is via a boil tank this is how solar panels work
one a pre heater the other secondary heater
you dont want it large tank based as it takes a while to heat up the water you want it wide enough to except the heater pipes and say 1/2" either side so it really heats the water fast
if its based on a lets say septic tank
heat always rises
each light blue being the coil from the solar unit so thats a 4 pass system of heating cold water
the septic side being the flow in from the large pool the clarification going back to the large pool
you will find the amount of water going through will be red hot and therefore heat the pool much faster due to flow and feed in needed
simplest way to test is via barels
homemade coils go in top ignore the taps there for drainage
basically a system like this where the heat coils go on the outside
the system is more known as a boil tank
the best aproach is to warm the water fast is via a boil tank this is how solar panels work
one a pre heater the other secondary heater
you dont want it large tank based as it takes a while to heat up the water you want it wide enough to except the heater pipes and say 1/2" either side so it really heats the water fast
if its based on a lets say septic tank
heat always rises
each light blue being the coil from the solar unit so thats a 4 pass system of heating cold water
the septic side being the flow in from the large pool the clarification going back to the large pool
you will find the amount of water going through will be red hot and therefore heat the pool much faster due to flow and feed in needed
simplest way to test is via barels
homemade coils go in top ignore the taps there for drainage
basically a system like this where the heat coils go on the outside
the system is more known as a boil tank
Kayos
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Staggering is a good term, its a good 50% of my projects
