Siemens Sinamics V20 inverter

[Carl Wilson]

Hello everyone. I was hoping there might be someone here with knowledge of these Siemens Sinamics V20 VFDs. I am currently trying to program one to run the motor on my milling machine.

I'm having a very frustrating time with this unit. I've attempted to program it by following the instructions in the manual, to the letter, for both "Quick Commissioning" and "Quick Commissioning through the Parameter Menu". Nothing I try works.

The vfd sits there, switched on and showing 0Hz on the display menu but none of my parameter changes appear to have any effect whatsoever. Out of the box, the unit ran the motor using the front panel (Basic Operator Panel) on the vfd. However, I cannot make any headway with getting external inputs working.

I've also tried various other programming and parameter set ups I got from trawling the Siemens forum. Again, nothing. No motor operation, I don't even get any indications on the LCD display when I operate the external switches or the speed pot.

There must be something simple I'm not doing either before, during or after setting the parameters. I cannot for the life of me see what it is.

I have been at it for a week, on and off, with no progress at all. I'm starting to think that it's just too complex for my needs.

I'm at the stage where if I cannot get it working in the next wee while, I will buy another, simpler to set up unit. I have a Teco on my lathe which works perfectly and has lots of features. It was easy enough to set up.

I bought the Siemens because I wanted quality. However if it's so complex to set up that I cannot fathom how to use it, then it's been a waste of money.

Has anyone got any ideas?!

 

[daleyd]

Have you done factory reset, and used the connection Macro CN006 to assign it for pushbutton control? (CN007 if using analogue input)

 

[Carl Wilson]

Hello mate, thanks for replying. I really appreciate the support.

So far I have tried using the connection macros Cn002 and Cn007. These both give external terminal control from switches or buttons with a pot for speed control.

I've done a factory reset, so P0010 to 30 and P0970 to 1, prior to each programming attempt. Neither of these attempts worked. By that I mean they did nothing. The inverter sits in display mode showing 0 hz and the controls do nothing.

What I really wanted to do was to set up the inverter using the parameters menu - in other words, not using the set up menu with macros. That way I could set it to work exactly as I wanted.

However neither of these approaches has had any effect. I'm starting to think that these things are just beyond my skill level to set up.

I think I'd be better off selling them to recoup the cost, to someone who has the knowledge to make them work.

That said, any pointers you can give would be gratefully received!

Cheers, Carl.

 

[daleyd]

Hello mate, thanks for replying. I really appreciate the support.

So far I have tried using the connection macros Cn002 and Cn007. These both give external terminal control from switches or buttons with a pot for speed control.

I've done a factory reset, so P0010 to 30 and P0970 to 1, prior to each programming attempt. Neither of these attempts worked. By that I mean they did nothing. The inverter sits in display mode showing 0 hz and the controls do nothing.

What I really wanted to do was to set up the inverter using the parameters menu - in other words, not using the set up menu with macros. That way I could set it to work exactly as I wanted.

However neither of these approaches has had any effect. I'm starting to think that these things are just beyond my skill level to set up.

I think I'd be better off selling them to recoup the cost, to someone who has the knowledge to make them work.

That said, any pointers you can give would be gratefully received!

Cheers, Carl.

Siemens are not generally my preferred choice, I hate their software and website with a passion!

I think the V20 software requires their programming environment TIA portal, it used to be that the older drive software could be installed as standalone package but I don't think that the case any longer. I find the software makes it easier to see whats going on rather than using the led display. I have a siemens account so I can see if I can get the TIA portal software as trial. (Anyone can sign up it's not difficult).

I think the macro's need to be done first, to set up the connection type and then you can customise it with the menu.

Have you also made sure you are logged in with expert access (P003). I'm not sure with P003 set to standard access you can do any reset or change the IO type.

 

[Carl Wilson]

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it. So I have tried setting the connection macro Cn002, which is terminal control, first, then attempting to customise this setting by changing parameters in the parameters menu.

Now, I could see the parameters related to the connection macro Cn002. They were all set as per the table in the manual which shows what parameters Cn002 effects and how it sets the parameters. The motor still didn't run, and indeed nothing happened at all.

That was after I'd set macro Cn002 as per the manual and also after I'd set it and modified the parameters to the way I wanted them.

I've had P0003 set to both 2, extended access, and also tried it on 3, expert access. I got the same result, ie no response from the inverter of any kind.

I have reached the point now where I've satisfied the main criteria for insanity. That is to say, doing the same thing continuously but expecting a different result.

It's disappointing. It seems to me that there is a vital piece of information that I am missing, that isn't in the manual. I think this because I've followed the manual to the letter and nothing is working.

 

[daleyd]

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it. So I have tried setting the connection macro Cn002, which is terminal control, first, then attempting to customise this setting by changing parameters in the parameters menu.

Now, I could see the parameters related to the connection macro Cn002. They were all set as per the table in the manual which shows what parameters Cn002 effects and how it sets the parameters. The motor still didn't run, and indeed nothing happened at all.

That was after I'd set macro Cn002 as per the manual and also after I'd set it and modified the parameters to the way I wanted them.

I've had P0003 set to both 2, extended access, and also tried it on 3, expert access. I got the same result, ie no response from the inverter of any kind.

I have reached the point now where I've satisfied the main criteria for insanity. That is to say, doing the same thing continuously but expecting a different result.

It's disappointing. It seems to me that there is a vital piece of information that I am missing, that isn't in the manual. I think this because I've followed the manual to the letter and nothing is working.

Hmm, yeah - sounds frustrating. I got into my Siemens account and downlaoded the inamics V20 softwrae, but it wouldn't install without having TIA portal installed. I'll see if I can get that installed next to see. I've never used this software so I don't know if it's any use, but I do find it a lot easier doing it via this.

CN002 seems to be requiring constant inputs, I think? And you can also switch between operation via the BOP and terminals by pressing M and OK - assume you are doing this to switch to terminal operation?

Have you tried any other macros like CN005 for fixed speeds etc?

PS the laughing emoji isn't about your plight, it was the "satisfied the criteria for insanity" part! I feel your pain!

 

[Carl Wilson]

Hello mate I really appreciate your help. I've tried different connection macros. I've also tried pressing M and Ok to switch between the BOP and the terminals. No effect.

I genuinely struggle to believe that a company like Siemens would build a product like this. It's an entry level inverter by their standards, designed to be installed and set up on site with minimal fuss. Supposedly.

I'm just going to buy a different one I think.

 

[daleyd]

Yeah, sounds like a nightmare! There's usually some fiddling to be done, but a lot of times (I'd say for probably 90 % of the inverters we use in work) you just want a simple configuration to run a pump, fan or whatever. Seems crazy - but Siemens do have form for this going on my previous dealings with them - to make it so complicated.

Their PLC stuff is the same - very good, but different from almost nay other PLC manufacturer, and you can spend hours trying to make the simplest thing work.

As an example I had to integrate some modbus signals from a Siemens PL at a customer. It's something we do pretty much every day at other places with other manufacturers, very occasionally we have some issues but most of the time it just works.

Had 2 engineers from Siemens there for 3 days before we got it working, of course it was my fault, there is no possibility it could be anything incorrect on their side...

 

[daleyd]

One other thing to check, have you added the link between either ground or 24v and DI C - depending on if it's a sink or source input type?

 

[daleyd]

Do you get any of these icons when you try and run it?

 

[Carl Wilson]

I had the link in between 24V and DIC. I also tried it the other way, between 0V and DIC so both PNP and NPN inputs. I got no icons displayed whatsoever on the LCD. All I got was the frequency display showing 0Hz.

 

[daleyd]

I had the link in between 24V and DIC. I also tried it the other way, between 0V and DIC so both PNP and NPN inputs. I got no icons displayed whatsoever on the LCD. All I got was the frequency display showing 0Hz.

Strange there was no icons, if it were me I’d have a go at factory reset and one of the fixed speed configs (assuming it still runs from the BOP?)

This would remove any doubt about the setup of the potentiometer scaling, and prove it’s able to run just via a command signal.

 

[Carl Wilson]

Thanks for helping me. I've done a number of factory resets and attempts at programming. I've been trying for a week now. It works via the BOP, but I cannot get it to do ANYTHING whatsoever by means of setting the parameters. It is as though the parameters have no effect at all on the unit.

I've followed the commissioning instructions in the manual, meticulously, as I say. I got no joy from that. I've also tried some things I found in the Siemens website. I've even done step by step - verbatim - programming following YouTube channels where the motor they configure runs at the end. I got the same result - nothing happened.

I'm now at the stage where I'm giving it up as a bad job. I have already spent far too long on it. I have other jobs that need doing on the mill to finish it. I will get some different, simpler VFDs and use them instead.

I have learned an expensive lesson.

 

[Robotstar5]

I think the V20 software requires their programming environment TIA portal, it used to be that the older drive software could be installed as standalone package but I don't think that the case any longer. I find the software makes it easier to see whats going on rather than using the led display. I have a siemens account so I can see if I can get the TIA portal software as trial. (Anyone can sign up it's not difficult).

I got sent on a TIA portal course as we were planning on using Siemens drives (we didn't in the end) it's a clever bit of software, but I didn't find it very intuitive.

 

[daleyd]

Thanks for helping me. I've done a number of factory resets and attempts at programming. I've been trying for a week now. It works via the BOP, but I cannot get it to do ANYTHING whatsoever by means of setting the parameters. It is as though the parameters have no effect at all on the unit.

I've followed the commissioning instructions in the manual, meticulously, as I say. I got no joy from that. I've also tried some things I found in the Siemens website. I've even done step by step - verbatim - programming following YouTube channels where the motor they configure runs at the end. I got the same result - nothing happened.

I'm now at the stage where I'm giving it up as a bad job. I have already spent far too long on it. I have other jobs that need doing on the mill to finish it. I will get some different, simpler VFDs and use them instead.

I have learned an expensive lesson.

Wow, that just sounds plain weird! I'd be willing to have a look at it (Not that I have any particular knowledge of that type of inverter, but I think I have access to the software which might help) but it depends whether you wanted the faff of sending it or if you just want to offload it.

 

[daleyd]

I got sent on a TIA portal course as we were planning on using Siemens drives (we didn't in the end) it's a clever bit of software, but I didn't find it very intuitive.

I've not used TIA portal, but I did use the old Simatic manager a lot in a previous job, which was just as bad but at least I was used to that and could muddle my way through.

Years ago I did a job at a book printing place with a Swedish made tension control system which had Siemens drive and integrated PLC. Think the software was called Simotion Scout or something - terrible, nothing worked, couldn't get connection, hard to follow. I just sat there and watched it not work for a week shrugging my shoulders at the customer until someone from Sweden turned up

 

[Carl Wilson]

Thanks for the offer. I think I'm just going to go with a different VFD. I used to work on a ship that had two big winches. They were each driven by two huge AC rail traction motors. These motors were powered by really big Siemens VFDs. They were controlled by Siemens PLCs. The whole thing was an absolute nightmare. I remember it as being really difficult to fault find and work with. I was sent on a Siemens PLC and drives training course in Manchester. It didn't shed a lot of light!

 

[Robotstar5]

I've not used TIA portal, but I did use the old Simatic manager a lot in a previous job, which was just as bad but at least I was used to that and could muddle my way through.

I don't know what the manager software did but Portal was designed to integrate PLC's, drives, HMI's etc.

 

[roofman]

if its VFD its best to have @daleyd on your side...the man is a genius with them

 

[RichardM]

Knowing nothing on Siemans stuff myself, but you say it stays at 0 hz, do the pot and switch work correctly when not connected?