Second attempt on my van.....

  1. I've been out there again this morning . I had a poke about and decided to bite the bullet and cut out a bit more rot.

    I cut a new plate to fit then tacked it in place.

    Then i went round doing 4 or 5 tacks in a row allowing them to melt into each other then moving to a different area and doing the same until there was a full weld all the way around.

    Here goes.......


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    I feel that i'm starting to get some where with it now and i'm much happier with the penetration i'm achieving now without blowing through.

    What do you think?

    (still using gasless by the way)
     
  2. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    south yorks
    you need to make sure that the new plate is is flat to the old metal,
    tack then tap with hammer as soon as you weld if there is any gap that's the start of the problems the last picture looks OK
    the other not too good but you are using gasless you would be much better useing gas even Co2 pub gas grind it back and see how it looks if you are laying a bigger plate over a cut out hole you will need to weld both sides for mot better to butt weld a plate in the hole you are getting better it's all about practice practice :cool::cool:

    is it a vw bus if so there is a seat belt mounting near that top of that plate??
    ;);)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011

  3. Yes it's a VW bus, the seat belt anchor can be seen here before i started to chop out all of the rot........


    [​IMG]


    My Dad dad is a plater/welder by trade so he is going to come round and help when i get to this point.
     
  4. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    south yorks
    as VWs go thats not too bad i have repaired much worse with the seat belt mount it need to be thicker metal there underneath i have seen 3mm plate used old fashened 1/8in in a 90% angle also welded un the doorpost like a capital L for that mount if you dads a plater can't he get hold of a argon bottle for you and a regulater you would find it a lot eaiser with gas and you need lots of clamps the tighter the gaps the better the weld

    these clamps work well on butt welds

    http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-welding-tools/intergrip-welding-clamps.html

    so do the big molegrips have a look at these too
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BERGEN-TOOLS-...206?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2eb5d3400e


    loads on fleybay big Gclamps as well
    have fun ;);)


    ;);););)
     
  5. the snooper

    the snooper getting older by the day

    Messages:
    20,442
    Location:
    Hull UK
    are you using the proper gassless mig wire because from those last pictures it looks like its normal mig wire with no gas.

    if you are using gasless wire the have you swapped the polarity of the torch and earth clamp around with gasless wire the torch is supposed to be negative and clamp positive if you cant do that on the machine then its not a gasless machine but you can alter it
     
    Bekker likes this.
  6. Engineer pre-moderated

    Messages:
    602
    UK
    The welding is not that great............if you are using flux core wire, you will find it much much easier to get good results if you change to gas shielding. If you are using gas then there seems to be a major problem, which needs to be sorted before doing any more.
     
  7. arceyed Member

    Messages:
    26
    UK,Glos.
    looks like welding with regular wire & no gas...some guy from Bristol was trying this the other day, it looked like the same welding to me?

    if you are using flux core/gasless wire and it's like that i would go with the normal wire with gas, co2 or argon c02 mix, or as some said play with the settings a bit, until it's right
     
  8. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    south yorks
  9. keith19 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,346
    Midlands UK
    Smoggy, your positioning of the welds is looking a lot better now, they are coming together quite nicely, especially in that last picture.

    However, as the guys are saying, there is something rather odd-looking about them, as if you are using gas wire without the gas, like this guy was experimenting with:
    http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26883

    Either that or whatever gasless wire you are using is not shielding the weld properly; but even with using low-quality flux-cored I've never had anything quite like this. Perhaps you should check the wire?
     
  10. Right fellas. I think you might be right......

    Here's the wire. Definitely gasless as i bought this myself...

    [​IMG]


    But here is how it's wired up......


    [​IMG]

    Looks to me like it can't have polarity swapped so isn't a no gas machine:mad:

    The machine is on loan from my wife's uncle who had it set up like this with gasless wire. He is terminally ill in hospital, poor fella, so i haven't really been able to drag him out to get any tips or advice.

    I just assumed that he had it set up correctly. and i know to assume anything makes an ASS out of U and ME. :D

    So my question is now... Will the work i've done be no good??? It certainly looks strong enough for the application. Doesn't look like it's about to crack and fall off put it that way.
     
  11. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    south yorks
    this might be helpful but by the looks of it that MIG is for gas only not gasless instead of starting a new thread every time you would be better keeping with the original one then people can read back to the beginning
    instead of picking up halfway through and giving misleading advice

    here is a manual gives wiring diagrams for both on the front cover of yours bottom right hand coner what is the connecter for is that for the gas or to swop the earth lead over :whistle::whistle:
    http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/files/sip.pdf
     
  12. arceyed Member

    Messages:
    26
    UK,Glos.
    ahhh i see the problem straight away, it's either a migmate, or other sip welder, you will always have problems welding with the qaulity of the wire feeder with that welder,also the settings can't be fine tuned enough, wire speed/power altering one setting changes both, also the wire feed motor runs off the same power supply as the welder, so will constantly change the wire speed, i used one for years and almost gave up, as the qaulity of welds were not improving, then i purchased an old Murex welder, and hey presto with a bit more practice i was producing much better qaulity welds, good penetration, and consistant beads, even on thin stuff.

    maybe a clarke welder or good qaulity second hand welder, as you will always feel you are not progressing at all, and all you end up doing is waste wire, time, and gas...a few members on this forum have modified their SIP, and similar welders, to produce consistant results, but a good knowledge of electronics, will be required.

    my advice is try a different welder, even if it means using a friends' welder, just to see what the difference is.

    Honestly you will never get good results unless you, either modify the feeder to at least work ok, or get a clarke welder, or good second hand one, you can pick up good branded second hand ones from £150-£200 good luck with it anyway :welder:
     
  13. this isn't a new thread:confused:

    You actually posted on this one yesterday;)
     
  14. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    south yorks
    thats what i mean there is 3 threads on this :( bit hard to follow

    Could maybe the mods put this into one thread please??
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  15. BillJ Member

    Messages:
    645
    Devon
    It certainly looks like a SIP Migmate.
    The first thing I can see is that the wire feed tension is whacked all the way up. This will achieve very little except to distort the feed mechanism and misalign the rollers, making the feed even less consistent. A brace across the mechanism should help keep it in place (see the SIP/Cosmo section of the forum).

    I'm assuming the drive roller is the right way round to fit the wire into the 0.8mm groove instead of the 0.6mm groove.
     
  16. I might not have to worry about all this now. I think i might have just bagged myself a Clarke 135te machine for the grand total of ZERO english pounds:laughing:

    It was bought by my works a couple of years ago by the maintenance department and they couldn't get away with it. I think it was only used until the disposable bottle ran out then it's been sat in a cupboard gathering dust:D

    anyway.....

    I've had a look today to see what kind of finish i will be able to achieve.

    I flattened the welds down using a flap disk, applied a layer of filler. sanded it down smooth then applied some high build primer.....


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    My plan is to flatten back the high build primer maybe use i little more filler if required then prime and paint.

    Is this the correct sequence to go about it?

    I haven't done any body work before so any advice will be welcome.
     
  17. octo0072000

    octo0072000 Member

    Messages:
    5,345
    Location:
    south yorks
    paint

    a lot of people just underseal it like the other bit near seat belt
    i would use spray on stone chip then paint it what you must do is make sure it's all sealed up under the wheel arch any pin holes and the rust will be back within a year

    i would have finished all that part first before filling painting
    what you do need is drip check brush on seam sealer on the welds first
    halfrauds sell it or car factors:waving::waving:
     
  18. keith19 Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    1,346
    Midlands UK
    Glad you've got this sorted. Quite a saga. Considering the odds stacked against you, things haven't turned out too badly:

    You have only just started welding, so need all the help you can get.
    The machine was a gas-only SIP. These are a bit notorious re the wire feed, as many of us have found out.:(
    The m/c was not designed for gasless wire, but was using it with the wrong polarity.:(
    The brand of gasless wire being used was not, shall we say, amongst the leading brands.:(
    The wire feed tension was locked down pretty tightly, which would tend to distort the gasless wire, which is softer than gas wire, leading to problems with feeding.:(
    It's a wonder you managed to do any sort of job at all!

    Anyway the job doesn't look too bad at all now you've cleaned it up and put some h/b primer on. It should stay together okay provided you protect it well under the wheel arch, as Octo says.
    And you have working with the Clarke 135 TE to look forward to:laughing:, you should find this a totally different experience. Let us know how you get on with it.
     

  19. Thank's for the encouraging words of support, advice and patience you guys have given me so far.

    I'm bringing my new welder home from work tonight (i'm on 3 - 11 shift:mad:).

    I've given the machine a clean down and it looks as good as new. I'd asked my boss if i could buy it and he told me i can have it. Bonus! ;)

    The only visible problem (haven't plugged it in yet) is that the shroud is missing. Sure i can get one of them easy enough. But it dose have 2 bottles of argon gas with it so can have a practice as soon as i sort out the shroud.

    So watch this space i'll be picking your brains again soon!!!
     
  20. arceyed Member

    Messages:
    26
    UK,Glos.
    well you did ok, if you follow the words of wisdom the other posters have mentioned, you'll do ok, what a bonus bagging a nice little clarke welder, especially for nowt.

    check the gas to see if it's pure argon or argon Co2 mix, if it's Argon not sure you'll get on too well, i think thats for stainless steel, and alloys, but i haven't used pure argon so can't really say for sure what it's like on mild steel.

    My welder was running rubbish for a while today, but blame the reclaimed angle for that, just a bit of top rust can be the difference between a good and a poor weld (me being lazy)...but it was transformed on the new box section steel i was welding today...there are so many things that can make things go bad, wrong power, wrong wire speed, wrong wire, dodgy liner or torch, tension wrong on the feeder, tension wrong on the wire roller, dirty steel, wrong gas, too little gas...it goes on.

    But looking through the forum, and tutorials can prevent so many mistakes, the rest you can pick up by experience, i am my worst enemy i like things to be perfect when i weld, so 9 times out of 10 i reckon i could of done something better regarding welding, and Having Aspergers doesn't help either...lol

    best of luck with the new Mig, let us know how you get on with it

    oh you can buy the shrouds from weldequips' shop click the link at the top of the forum
     
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