Replicating Lathe spindle nose

[dieselsamurai]

On my project list is making a replica of the spindle nose of my lathe for 4 reasons

I need to make a new backplate for my 6" 3 jaw chuck as I want to make it adjustable (will be another thread)
It can be used to mount a chuck on the milling machine
I have a taper tuning attachment but never used it
I like a challenge

My lathe has a nose similar to D1-4 but is called DIN 55027 and uses a bayonet type hold down retainer with studs

The angle of the nose fitting I always thought was odd but 7'7'30" equates to 7.125 degrees and using the handy FSWizard app on my phone found out this means its a 1 in 4 taper

This is my taper attachment I have about 300mm of travel but ultimately I only need 11mm for this job



The adjuster has some play and the markings are not the best so in a moment of rare inspiration I thought the best thing to do is to machine a 40mm + taper onto some aluminium bar stock then I can adjust until I get it right



Consequently after some very fine adjustment and swearing I achieved as closed as I could get without going insane



The advantage of cutting a test piece is also that i can set it up in the lathe at any point afterwards and use it either way round to set the correct taper up on the attachment



It is center drilled each end and has surfaces each end for a dial gauge to check its cantered in chuck

Final result is a copy of the chuck nose I blued two back plates and the taper is perfect , I couldn't get a 5thou feeler in-between face and the back plate and im happy with that



I just have to machine the holes for the studs and the pocket for the drive stud

Next issue is where to get some M10 nuts like these but with 14mm flats not 17mm as they wont pass through the holes in the spindle , Ive looked everywhere but i think i am going to be forced to make some

 

[Dapph2]

Could you use stainless steel elongated nuts and stainless steel studding ?
Some thing like this and turn down or add a sleeve to suit ?

eBay item number:124262543604

 

[Agroshield]

Next issue is where to get some M10 nuts like these but with 14mm flats not 17mm

Buy some standard M10 black oxide flange nuts from a milling machine clamping set, alter them and re-black.

'M10 collar nut' finds them (M10 flange nut does not). DIN6331 is a Standard which appears to offer 16mm A/F so they might squeeze in.

https://www.rotagriponline.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=9923&category_id=106&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

 

[Pete.]

Setting up to cut a taper that way works great but you absolutely have to have your dial gauge on centre or you get a false reading. You also have to have your tool exactly on centre height when cutting it. I'm going to make a dial gauge adapter to cancel out any off-centre-height errors as I've needed one in the past.

 

[dieselsamurai]

Could you use stainless steel elongated nuts and stainless steel studding ?
Some thing like this and turn down or add a sleeve to suit ?

eBay item number:124262543604

Thats a possible way yes

 

[dieselsamurai]

Buy some standard M10 black oxide flange nuts from a milling machine clamping set, alter them and re-black.

'M10 collar nut' finds them (M10 flange nut does not). DIN6331 is a Standard which appears to offer 16mm A/F so they might squeeze in.

https://www.rotagriponline.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=9923&category_id=106&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29

I just checked and the nuts are actually 16mm diameter for an M10 thread which is such an odd size

the difference is very clear!



I think really my only option is to make from scratch

 

[dieselsamurai]

Setting up to cut a taper that way works great but you absolutely have to have your dial gauge on centre or you get a false reading. You also have to have your tool exactly on centre height when cutting it. I'm going to make a dial gauge adapter to cancel out any off-centre-height errors as I've needed one in the past.

Agreed I used the largest diameter to minimise error and double checked the centre height of the gauge , I do need to make a better way of checking it though

 

[Misterg]

Next issue is where to get some M10 nuts like these but with 14mm flats not 17mm as they wont pass through the holes in the spindle , Ive looked everywhere but i think i am going to be forced to make some

Japanese standard (JIS) nuts for M10 are 14mm AF.

Might have to hunt around for a supplier, but found these quickly:

Hex Nut,Flanged M10x1.5 JIS B1190 (14mm Hex) - Northern Lights

northernlights.uk.com

M10 Small Head Flange Nut JIS B1190 Flange Nut [] - £5.73 : Stainless Automotive Fastenings

JIS B1190

www.stainlessautomotivefastenings.co.uk

(Are you sure of the pitch?)

 

[dieselsamurai]

Japanese standard (JIS) nuts for M10 are 14mm AF.

Might have to hunt around for a supplier, but found these quickly:

Hex Nut,Flanged M10x1.5 JIS B1190 (14mm Hex) - Northern Lights

northernlights.uk.com

M10 Small Head Flange Nut JIS B1190 Flange Nut [] - £5.73 : Stainless Automotive Fastenings

JIS B1190

www.stainlessautomotivefastenings.co.uk

(Are you sure of the pitch?)

Great Its amazing the knowledge on here , Ive looked but didnt think about JIS the pitch is definitely 1.5 as a standard M10 bolt screws in the flange

I need 24 so might need to shop around

 

[dieselsamurai]

I found these after the specs above just a shame they are serrated on the bottom , they are 18mm so could turn them down to 16mm

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Serrated-Flange-Finished/dp/B09MHHDYZC

Quality looks terrible though and no grade of steel

 

[iNf]

I'm going to make a dial gauge adapter to cancel out any off-centre-height errors as I've needed one in the past.

What sort of thing are you going to make?

 

[Agroshield]

Quality looks terrible though and no grade of steel

That is why I suggested the clamping kit nuts. No serrations, a good quality steel and a thick flange.

You only have to reduce the A/F to 14mm (and you do not need an indexer for that, because you can rest the opposite flat on a parallel) and then turn down the flange.

I think an elephant's foot tip to the indicator would cope with centre height variation. It will always touch a round piece at its maximum diameter, whether its centre is above or below the axis of the piece (assuming it is horizontal).

The 16mm A/F is possibly so a 5/8" spanner can be used on them. In a similar way, some collar nuts are 22mm A/F so 7/8" wrenches can be used. Look up Vertex's catalogue and see what they offer in both imperial and metric and how, for efficient tool use, it might make sense.

 

[dieselsamurai]

That is why I suggested the clamping kit nuts. No serrations, a good quality steel and a thick flange.

You only have to reduce the A/F to 14mm (and you do not need an indexer for that, because you can rest the opposite flat on a parallel) and then turn down the flange.

I think an elephant's foot tip to the indicator would cope with centre height variation. It will always touch a round piece at its maximum diameter, whether its centre is above or below the axis of the piece (assuming it is horizontal).

The 16mm A/F is possibly so a 5/8" spanner can be used on them. In a similar way, some collar nuts are 22mm A/F so 7/8" wrenches can be used. Look up Vertex's catalogue and see what they offer in both imperial and metric and how, for efficient tool use, it might make sense.

The main issue is the nuts need to pass through an 17mm hole in the spindle I have loads of M10 flange nuts but will have to reduce the diameter by 6mm (I think they are 22mm) and then cut a new hex on it at 14mm is that what you are suggesting ? 16mm AF will not fit through the hole in the spindle

 

[Agroshield]

then cut a new hex on it at 14mm is that what you are suggesting...

Yes. Take a 16mm A/F nut out of the packet. Rest one side on a parallel in the milling vice. Touch cutter off on top. Drop cutter 1mm. Remove material. Rotate 120 degrees. Repeat. Rotate 120 degrees. Repeat. Drop cutter 1mm more. Finish the other three sides. Send to lathe and turn flange down to 17mm dia.

You are not really cutting a new hex on the nut, just removing an equal amount of material from each side of the hex that is already on the nut.

Are the fasteners on the lathe imperial or metric? A possibility for the nut A/F is 9/16". That could save you having to have two spanners in the toolkit.

If you are into cycling (and thus already have the spanner), you could make the nut 15mm A/F and nip the corners off to fit the 17mm hole.

 

[dieselsamurai]

Yes. Take a 16mm A/F nut out of the packet. Rest one side on a parallel in the milling vice. Touch cutter off on top. Drop cutter 1mm. Remove material. Rotate 120 degrees. Repeat. Rotate 120 degrees. Repeat. Drop cutter 1mm more. Finish the other three sides. Send to lathe and turn flange down to 17mm dia.

You are not really cutting a new hex on the nut, just removing an equal amount of material from each side of the hex that is already on the nut.

Are the fasteners on the lathe imperial or metric? A possibility for the nut A/F is 9/16". That could save you having to have two spanners in the toolkit.

If you are into cycling (and thus already have the spanner), you could make the nut 15mm A/F and nip the corners off to fit the 17mm hole.

Yeah thats how I was planning to do it if I need to modify existing nuts

The lathe is metric so 14mm is definitely what it is

the advantage of 15mm is more 'meat' on the nut but i need to turn it to 16mm diameter to fit through the hole which will will round off the corners perhaps increasing the risk of slippage tightening it . may stick to 14mm

 

[Pete.]

You can buy M10 flanged nuts with a 14mm hex.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I'm replicating my spindle nose for the purpose of making back plates and a collet chuck...fortunately my spindle is just 1.75" 8tpi thread with a 45 degree nose so all very easy geometry...once my internal threading bar arrives as all the ones I have are too small and I haven't got a big enough blank to grind one and have it long enough to do the job as well

 

[dieselsamurai]

You can buy M10 flanged nuts with a 14mm hex.

You can but they are quite expensive and this month has been very expensive so far I need 18 minimum and looks like they are £5 a pop , im not tight but i cant justify it right now

 

[Dapph2]

Would 14 mm hex bright mild steel bar be useable and tap it out yourself to make the nut then make a sleeve for the other part of the bolt to bring it up to size ?

14 mm hex bright mild steel bar - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

 

[Pete.]

You can but they are quite expensive and this month has been very expensive so far I need 18 minimum and looks like they are £5 a pop , im not tight but i cant justify it right now

Gotcha. Get some m8 flanged nuts and tap them out to m10