Recommendations - hobby mills

  1. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    Also I think it would help to tell the guy with the pallet truck to lift it as little as possible, better it scrape a bit against the floor than get too much of a wobble going.
     
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  2. fizzy Member

    Messages:
    6,358
    uk
    Make sure it is a 120x100 pallet NOT a 120x80!
    There are 120x120 pallets which are even better but they usually don't work with a pallet truck.
    It needs to be a very heavy duty pallet like this. Not rotten!


    [​IMG]

    You need to screw a thick piece of ply to the pallet - then bolt it down.

    Make sure the knee and head are as low as possible. And as mentioned make sure the driver always uses straps.

    How heavy is the mill? Just because a tail lift will cope with 1000kg doesn't make it safe or easy - all depends on the centre of gravity.
     
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  3. fizzy Member

    Messages:
    6,358
    uk
    Oh and congratulations on your lovely new milling machine!
     
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  4. fizzy Member

    Messages:
    6,358
    uk
    I have just looked at your earlier posts. That is on a 120x80 pallet - WHY do people do this????????????
    If it is 1000kg or even close I would be very worried about a tail lift. Some are rated to 1500kg but some are only 750kg. Average is 1000kg but they aren't all the same. Usually if you have restricted access they send a smaller lorry with a smaller tail lift!
    Is there anyone you know with a telehandler or something?
     
  5. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    It is probably over 1000kg if anything (base machine is 975kg but add the head and other accessories). But I have told them it weighed up to 1200kg so they shold be aware of thata already. I believe there are tail lifts here that easily handle over 1000kg.

    I don't know anyone who can help with this. Access to my house is not restricted and a full size truck can easily get here.
     
  6. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    I have read one report of a person in germany tipping his FP2 deckel, from climbing on it! Apparently this person had removed both the regular table and vertical table and driven the knee to the to of the Z axis. This mae the machine more top heavy. So leave the tables and everything on... Just lower it as much as possible. Hey why not put a few sacks of cement on the base too...

    https://forum.zerspanungsbude.net/viewtopic.php?p=134485#p134485
     
  7. fizzy Member

    Messages:
    6,358
    uk
    Not many tail lifts will easily handle over 1200kg.
    Even if they can the man with the pallet truck can't.
    Have you ever tried moving 1000kg with one? The wheels are tiny so even one little stone will stop it dead. Once it starts rolling it is hard to stop.
    Do you have a heavy duty trailer? I often get customers to collect themselves from the depot as they can fork lift onto the trailer. Then you could use a gantry to lower it.
    Sorry to come over doom and gloom but we move pallets every day. We had 2 milling machines go over last week.
     
  8. fizzy Member

    Messages:
    6,358
    uk
    [​IMG]

    This type of tail lift is the best - rated at 1500kg and very wide. Trouble is not many depots use them as they can't use loading bays in places like Amazon.
     
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  9. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    That's what I was thinking about more or less, looks like the trucks I get when a truck delivers something by pallet, though smaller than the normal finnish truck.

    But I don't have anything at all myself, no trailer, no cranes, no nothing. I can only put my trust in the competence of the guys who are moving my machine. I've given them an estimated weight and dimensions and specified I wanted it delivered home and that I do not have a loading dock or crane or other equipment.

    So I simply have to assume that these guys know their stuff, they will see if the thing is too heavy to move with a pallet truck and if that is the case, then they won't send it like that and will offer an alternate solution. I like to think these guys are pros:
    http://www.williamsson.fi/en/
     
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  10. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    I understand there are also electric pallet trucks for heavier duty tasks, automatic brakes and stuff like that? Maybe they got some of those, I should ask tomorrow.
     
  11. Hopefuldave Intergalactic pot-mender

    Messages:
    1,656
    Location:
    The Shed of Danger, surrey, England
    Tail lifts after a few year's use can droop, if it's not level the pallet truck can run away...

    Dave H. (the other one)
     
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  12. addjunkie

    addjunkie Member

    Messages:
    6,041
    Location:
    Northumberland. Reet oot in the sticks
    Hiab makes moving lathes and mills very easy
     
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  13. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    HIAB is expensive as all heck though, and I am not sure it can maneuver the crane so it gets indoors where it needs to be. In that case it's back to pallet truck land anyway.
     
  14. fizzy Member

    Messages:
    6,358
    uk
    Yes there are - but they weigh about 300kg - so would def need a 1500kg tail lift.
    The biggest problem with a tail lift is not so much their max capacity as the angle they come down at. There are 2 main types - one is underslung - under the back of the lorry and has a ram to lift. These are strong but don't go flat to the floor. It is when the driver tilts it the mill will go over. Perhaps you could build a low platform so the driver doesn't tail lift.jpg need to tilt the tail lift down to the floor.

    HIAB is ideal but depends on distance. They charge by the hour or mile.
     
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  15. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    That might work already, the ground is lower than the concrete plate outside my shop and I have another 28mm from the plywood platform I built. Total height difference is probably 60-70mm
     
  16. Carl Wilson Member

    Messages:
    1,732
    Location:
    Moray
    Hi Dennis - first of all congratulations on getting that fantastic machine. It looks very capable. It is very big and I assume very heavy. Seems to have elements of a Kearney and Trekker design.

    I speak as someone who stood and watched as his new milling machine tipped over in slow motion (or so it seemed). I'm not sure if a tail lift would be a wise idea. I have no real experience to draw on here apart from watching my (only) 850kg Harrison Mill teetering precariously on the tail lift as the two chaps who delivered it the second time around tried to keep it steady.

    Also a few years ago I moved my Harrison M250 lathe using a Ford Transit type box van with a tail lift. As I rolled the pallet truck onto the lift with the lathe on it, I thought it wasn't going to stop. I managed to drop the forks down quickly and the pallet contacted the tail lift base and stopped it. I needed a fresh pair of underpants after that.

    As I mentioned earlier in the thread (and elsewhere on this forum) the driver who tipped my mill over was unhurt and the mill was not significantly damaged. However, it could have been much worse. Had the machine been half a metre over from the vehicle centre line, it would have gone through the curtain side of the lorry and landed on the road. This would have caused a major incident, as well as being fatal for the mill.

    This experience has taught me that if I ever buy another large piece of machinery I would look to finding someone with, or hiring, a flat bed truck with a Hiab crane. My friend Paul (who also posts here) recently acquired an XYZ lathe and that is how he moved it from it's location to his shop.
     
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  17. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    Compiled a mail to the trucking company with a condensed version of the points brought up here, also gave some suitable delivery times for me. Doesn't look like any delivery until wednesday, truck maintenance first. That's a good thing though.
     
  18. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    The problem with a HIAB crane is that it leaves the mill outside the shop. I'll still need a pallet truck to move it inside. I've noted my concerns to the company.

    It's also not very big for a milling machine from what I've gathered. I'll look for a picture that shows the size in relation to a person.
     
  19. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
  20. Dennis Aspö

    Dennis Aspö Member

    Messages:
    1,162
    Location:
    Finland
    This whole thing has prompted me to start designing and hopefully building my own gantry crane.
    Ideally it will have the following features:

    -Adjustable height (not sure how tall it needs to be, my ceiling is 250cm but my garage door is less)

    -Able to be taken apart for storage.

    -Lean in size, span of the main beam I think need not be more than 1.5 meters to lift any of the machines I got or am likely to ever acquire, perhaps 2 meters but that might make it bulkier than is needed and hard to move.

    -The max width of the legs should be around 100cm or so or it will be too hard to move around.

    It will not be ready in any way shape or form to help with this conundrum, but having a mill should aid in building it.
     
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