Power assisted motorcycle clutch cable. Ideas?

[Morrisman]

K.I.S.S. Come to a halt ,stop the engine , reach down and select neutral by hand with no need to use clutch, restart engine ready for the off. We all had to do that at sometime in the 60's thanks to dodgy clutches .

That gets awkward in the stop/start crawling traffic we get in my town, which is generally where I have problems. Nowadays I plan my routes to avoid such tedium.

I had a little go on my mates 600cc CCM bobber yesterday, 130kg, 50hp single. Hydraulic clutch with a shorty lever. I could operate it, just, but when it came to get off I couldn’t find neutral, the lever just refused to click up from 1st….

My mate had to nip over and kill the motor before I stalled it.

“Yes, most guys usually switch off then find neutral, they’re well known for it”
…he tells me afterwards.

 

[daedalusminos]

I would get a fish scale on the actuator arm and measure force and distance so we know what we're dealing with.

A electro-mechanical servo is probably the simplest though the lever position sensor would require some design - may be easier to configure it as a servo assist.

Vacuum is nice - plenty of small actuators design for wastegate/variable induction for cars in the range of 2-3". Variable control might be tricky and you'd need a reservoir.

 

[Pete.]

I wonder if you could put a helper solenoid in the brake cable run. Not powerful enough to pull the clutch but enough to just offer some assistance with the pull effort. It would require a 2-piece cable and a microswitch on the lever but the mechanics of it should not be too taxing. Could even have a PWM controler to adjust the effort.

 

[Morrisman]

I wonder if you could put a helper solenoid in the brake cable run. Not powerful enough to pull the clutch but enough to just offer some assistance with the pull effort. It would require a 2-piece cable and a microswitch on the lever but the mechanics of it should not be too taxing. Could even have a PWM controler to adjust the effort.

Interesting idea. Something that could provide, say, 50% of the required pull, it could even operate directly on the lower clutch arm. There’s already a microswitch on the clutch lever as part of the in-gear lockout, which could be utilised.

 

[daedalusminos]

I wonder if you could put a helper solenoid in the brake cable run. Not powerful enough to pull the clutch but enough to just offer some assistance with the pull effort. It would require a 2-piece cable and a microswitch on the lever but the mechanics of it should not be too taxing. Could even have a PWM controler to adjust the effort.

Kind of what I was getting at with the servo assist - you connect two cables with a spring (rate dependendant on amount of assit) and then sense the stretch and provide servo input to maintain set length.

 

[oldbikedavey]

I wonder if you could put a helper solenoid in the brake cable run. Not powerful enough to pull the clutch but enough to just offer some assistance with the pull effort. It would require a 2-piece cable and a microswitch on the lever but the mechanics of it should not be too taxing. Could even have a PWM controler to adjust the effort.

Half a loaf is better than no bread at all....

 

[redlig]

Not forgetting the free play to avoid pushrod damage.
Also ,how much free space is available for these "improvements" most bikes seem to be very tightly packaged ?
Also everything has to be weather and road grime proof as well as 100 % reliable and stable ( not prone to frequent adjustment requirements).

 

[Keithmac]

Most bikes specify 10mm to 15mm of free play at the end of the clutch lever.

Dropping into neutral from 2nd gear while still rolling to a stop is normally easiest on "problem" bikes.

I've seen a few videos now on Honda's E clutch and it looks interesting, basically has way house between a manual and dct gearbox.

It doesn't however take any strain off the cable from what I can see, either the servo has full control or no control at all depending on which mode is selected.

Still looks a very nice system though as you have full control over which gear is selected and when.

 

[minimutly]

Interesting idea. Something that could provide, say, 50% of the required pull, it could even operate directly on the lower clutch arm. There’s already a microswitch on the clutch lever as part of the in-gear lockout, which could be utilised.

You're going to struggle with a 12V solenoid to get enough power to help. You need hydraulics or vacuum. Plus then pwm to control it. as noted earlier, it's a bit of a project.

 

[oldbikedavey]

Motorcycle hydraulic micro-pto systems sound like fun....

 

[Morrisman]

Motorcycle hydraulic micro-pto systems sound like fun....

Powered side stand, powered centrestand, power steering..

 

[Hood]

Powered side stand, powered centrestand, power steering..

Well I am working on one of the three, will it last? Fook knows but seems ok so far.

 

[oldbikedavey]

Powered side stand, powered centrestand, power steering..

The powered centre stand sounds like a nifty wheeze, given a hydraulic accumulator.....

 

[jmp49]

Well I am working on one of the three, will it last? Fook knows but seems ok so far.

Bimota came factory with one of these. Well, it came with a sidestand that sprang up when the bike was lifted vertical that had no park position.

It was either that, or fit a switch wired to a idiot light on the dash to conform to the law apparently, and given the quality of the rest of the electrics apart from the yamaha bits on mine, its probably for the best...
It is a massive pain when onlookers think they can sit on your bike though, pick it up and suddenly its retracted and they pish off and leave it on its side (happened twice) only for a bystander to tell me who they were to go sort it out. But really, just dont touch someone elses bike without permission. Whatever it is.

 

[Morrisman]

Bimota came factory with one of these. Well, it came with a sidestand that sprang up when the bike was lifted vertical that had no park position.

It was either that, or fit a switch wired to a idiot light on the dash to conform to the law apparently, and given the quality of the rest of the electrics apart from the yamaha bits on mine, its probably for the best...
It is a massive pain when onlookers think they can sit on your bike though, pick it up and suddenly its retracted and they pish off and leave it on its side (happened twice) only for a bystander to tell me who they were to go sort it out. But really, just dont touch someone elses bike without permission. Whatever it is.

My mates CCM Bobber has the same daft design side stand. Luckily it’s a fairly light bike… so can be caught just before crashing to the ground.

 

[jmp49]

This is 140kg apparently, according to the homogulation plate on the headstock. I personally think they must be very big kilos in italy because its also got a 1000cc exup engine in it and the complete fzr1000 which has that engine comes in at 235kg with oil and fuel, but there you go. The problem is people who arent expecting it doing it when I'm not there to intervene, its fine once your brain is dialed in to the fact it does it and if people ask first, you can warn them about it and be ready to catch it.

Im going to weigh it for giggles when I get it out next. I've always been curious how BIG a lie that is...

 

[Keithmac]

Bimota came factory with one of these. Well, it came with a sidestand that sprang up when the bike was lifted vertical that had no park position.

It was either that, or fit a switch wired to a idiot light on the dash to conform to the law apparently, and given the quality of the rest of the electrics apart from the yamaha bits on mine, its probably for the best...
It is a massive pain when onlookers think they can sit on your bike though, pick it up and suddenly its retracted and they pish off and leave it on its side (happened twice) only for a bystander to tell me who they were to go sort it out. But really, just dont touch someone elses bike without permission. Whatever it is.

We call them suicide stands.

It's either an electronic inhibitor when the side stand is down or a self retracting stand as you say for safety.

I've worked on a bike with electric centre / main stand but can't remember what make and model it was, used a 12v motor to operate it.

 

[jmp49]

What would be good would be a solenoid that stops the stand retracting unless the ignition is active, but leave it spring up automatically. But then if it sticks and your not checking it, your off...

Anyway, getting back to the MPS pneumatic clutch thing, I took a photo of the mps power clutch mocked up on a bike, its really simple but you need air to run it so small co2 cylinder and a little 12v compressor to top it off mid journey. its not a bespoke lever, its just a hole drilled in the stock one thats been sawn off and welded back on at a different angle to give more throw it seems with a bracket that bolts to the original mirror mount (I think...).
Maybe you could do same with a 12v linear actuator in place of the air ram and skip all the pneumatics.