Power assisted motorcycle clutch cable. Ideas?

[Morrisman]

There's the clarke one light clutch conversion too, but they are for hydraulic clutches, so you would have to convert to hydraulic then have one fitted. They claim to store the spring energy as you release the clutch then deliver it as assistance when you pull it back in, making any clutch one finger operation. Theyre quite well promoted in motox circles...

One Light Clutch – CLAKE

www.clake.com.au

For the hydraulic conversion, maybe you could get one of the slave/cable converters fitted just to be able to use the clarke.

I'd be tempted to ping clarke themselves see if they might be thinking about a cable version...

I just watched a couple of videos on their site, and nothing I can see explains where they generate enough energy to remove 75% of the effort to move the clutch.

I can’t imagine how they ‘store the spring energy’. It makes me think of one of those perpetual motion schemes people spend an age promoting, but there is a lot of feedback from various motorcycle web sites proving it works.

Pretty spendy though, considering I’d need a slave cylinder as well, but a miracle if it performs as well as claimed.

 

[Keithmac]

If you can bring it to York and leave it I could look at fitting some lighter springs, other than that you are into custom parts territory.

If there is a solution for a hydraulic clutch setup that would be a lot of work to convert a cable operated clutch but not impossible (but ££££),this would allow you to fot a thumb brake lever converted to clutch operation could be an option but would that be any better?.

A spring change is possible best first option and if you don't fancy doing it bring it to my workshop and I'll make sure you are not paying through the nose for it.

A recluse clutch would allow you to set off in 1st or 2nd with no hand input.

 

[Morrisman]

If you can bring it to York and leave it I could look at fitting some lighter springs, other than that you are into custom parts territory.

If there is a solution for a hydraulic clutch setup that would be a lot of work to convert a cable operated clutch but not impossible (but ££££),this would allow you to fot a thumb brake lever converted to clutch operation could be an option but would that be any better?.

A spring change is possible best first option and if you don't fancy doing it bring it to my workshop and I'll make sure you are not paying through the nose for it.

A recluse clutch would allow you to set off in 1st or 2nd with no hand input.

Thanks for the very kind offer, you’re over 100 miles away from me though, such a trip would have me on my knees.

I’ve seen a few hydraulic conversions for not a lot of money, but not sure they would improve things much. They come with a new hydraulic clutch lever assembly and a ‘pull’ slave cylinder that operates on the lower arm

I’ve got quite a few ideas to mull over now, so I shall have a think and calculate a plan of attack.

 

[redlig]

Years ago I played with the idea of a gearchange lever but with a second pedal end welded above the normal one to enable your toe end of boot to operate the gear lever without having to forever keep moving your foot above or below the normal lever. It made finding neutral much easier . I still found that selecting neutral before coming to a halt much the simplest way. Also made a difference by increasing the "throw" of the gearchange pedal helped by reducing the energy required to select gears /neutral and reduced the chances of over selection. Soon got used to"different" feel of pedal.
My 125 sherco has a neat hydraulic clutch leaver that is almost as small as a normal clutch lever set up which transfers the motion to a short normal cable and lever . All very tidy and tucked away .

 

[oldbikedavey]

Any mileage in a car-type brake servo principle system ?

 

[waddycall]

I’d be tempted to find someone local who could check the clutch for you. Is it the slipper clutch?

 

[Pete.]

Any mileage in a car-type brake servo principle system ?

I was thinking just the same, a small vaccum canister servo. You'd have to make one most likely but It's not too complicated an affair.

 

[Morrisman]

Any mileage in a car-type brake servo principle system ?

That was one idea I was mulling with. It’d have to be very petite as it’s a very compact bike with little room to fit one.

I was thinking just the same, a small vaccum canister servo. You'd have to make one most likely but It's not too complicated an affair.

The depressing thing is that I can’t manufacture it myself for the very reason I need it.

I’d be tempted to find someone local who could check the clutch for you. Is it the slipper clutch?

I’ve ordered oil and filter, which I shall change and see if, possibly, that makes any difference to clutch drag. It’s a bit of a fiddly faff around to get the clutch cover off, so finding someone to do it who knows what they’re looking for is a good idea. Clutch drag has been mentioned by other people on the gs forum, so it might be ‘normal’.
I think the slipper clutch appeared the following year on the 310. Mine’s 2019.

 

[jmp49]

I just watched a couple of videos on their site, and nothing I can see explains where they generate enough energy to remove 75% of the effort to move the clutch.

I can’t imagine how they ‘store the spring energy’. It makes me think of one of those perpetual motion schemes people spend an age promoting, but there is a lot of feedback from various motorcycle web sites proving it works.

Pretty spendy though, considering I’d need a slave cylinder as well, but a miracle if it performs as well as claimed.

I know someone who is a distributor for reckluse clutches who's involved quite heavily in professional enduro and motocross racing, I'll ask him if he personally knows anyone thats stumped out for the clarke and will give a honest comment. I'd want to know it was genuine before I shelled out that sort of money too as it could just be emperor's new clothes and free levers for good reviews but they do have a suprisingly large amount of them...
You certainly dont have to use the expensive magura hydraulic conversion to go with it, sounds like you have a more budget minded one sorted anyway. As I mentioned already I just find a oem slave cylinder and make a adaptor up because I'm a proper cheapskate, was just looking to find a off the shelf commercial version.

The other madness I didnt mention was a MRE air clutch, it adds a air solenoid cylinder to the lever itself, and you press then hold a button on the bars to keep it back to the bars (keeps air pressure to the actuator), then you release the button, it closes a valve directly or a solenoid that closes the air valve and the lever is released. Its made to launch hard on a button instead of releasing the lever. The other side of the solenoid/air valve is connected to a small air tank, think co2 bottle for a fishtank size, that you hide away under the tank somewhere and run a line up to the bars with. The idea at first was dump the clutch to launch hard, then later with the solenoid version you could tell the ecu you were launching and dump clutch for launch mechanically rather than have the ecu do it.
Its off the shelf, but you would need a air source and a way to pressurise the air source for longer use than 1/4 mile. I've got one somewhere tucked away if you want photos, but they seem a bit hokey to be something you would want to rely on every day any day 365 days a year.

Also some audi's have small plastic accumulators for vacuum assistance, they should be hide-able somewhere discreet in the frame, its then if you have the engine vacumn in the inlet to charge the vacuum up.

 

[Pete.]

TBH I think the favourite idea here is a lock-up pressure plate and modify the clutch cover to accomodate it. I know someone who bought the correct diameter aluminium saucepan, cut the bottom off and used it to extend his clutch cover to make the space for a lockup.

 

[jmp49]

K Factory apparently do a GS 310 cover with a window on. Which would seem to be ideal to make room for lockup plate arm clearance, also lets you inspect the mechanism without touching anything (and just remove the window to service/adjust).

 

[oldbikedavey]

Any ideas as to what vacuum force is available from an inlet manifold with a shut throttle ?
That would govern the size of the servo drum, probably.....

 

[Morrisman]

The Recluse clutch is looking more appealing every time I check it out.

However, I’m not 100% sure I want to invest a bunch into this particular bike, it’s not my style of engine, revvy, peaky etc. But, i already have it, its fairly low milage, in good nick etc.

 

[reb78]

The Recluse clutch is looking more appealing every time I check it out.

However, I’m not 100% sure I want to invest a bunch into this particular bike, it’s not my style of engine, revvy, peaky etc. But, i already have it, its fairly low milage, in good nick etc.

What would be your ideal bike out of interest. I looked up the 310 earlier and it wasn't what I pictured you on for some reason! Just curious but maybe it's time to get the one you really want.

 

[Keithmac]

Thanks for the very kind offer, you’re over 100 miles away from me though, such a trip would have me on my knees.

I’ve seen a few hydraulic conversions for not a lot of money, but not sure they would improve things much. They come with a new hydraulic clutch lever assembly and a ‘pull’ slave cylinder that operates on the lower arm

I’ve got quite a few ideas to mull over now, so I shall have a think and calculate a plan of attack.

It would eliminate any drag in the cable (some are worse than others) so may improve it slightly.

As you said originally some Harleys have an electric assist for the clutch but I haven't had much experience with them to give you any guidance on that.

I know the Suzuki TL1000's suffer a lot with cable drag and poor clutch engagement, a popular option there is to fit the hydraulic setup from the TL1000R.

People have mentioned lock up clutches, that is a good idea but a lot of fabrication.

We had a chap with no use of his left arm who road around an an Automatic Honda cb400?, he eventually went over to a newer sports bike that had been adapted but I can't remember what was done with the clutch.

Anyone with experience in electronics could maybe design a "drive by wire" clutch, the arm operated by a servo and the lever fitted with a potentiometer, again a lot of work.

The hydraulic setup that claims same throw with less effort sounds like snake oil to me but there must be some milage in it?.

I wonder what the travel distance of the pressure plate is and if you could use different plates to allow less required throw, you would then be able to alter the leverage for less effort.

Or could you have some plates made with high friction coefficient to allow lighter springs?.

We do work on a couple of 310's, next time we have one in I'll have a look.

I built a G650 X Challenge for a customer and he has been over to Morocco for a month, 6000 mile trip. We put a brand new clutch in that and it was very "touchy", a very fine line between dragging (poor neutral selection etc) and not having adequate free play, sounds similar to you issue?.

 

[Keithmac]

This looks interesting, worth a look?.

https://www.gilaniengineering.com.au/product/servo-assisted-clutch/

 

[Morrisman]

It would eliminate any drag in the cable (some are worse than others) so may improve it slightly.

As you said originally some Harleys have an electric assist for the clutch but I haven't had much experience with them to give you any guidance on that.

I know the Suzuki TL1000's suffer a lot with cable drag and poor clutch engagement, a popular option there is to fit the hydraulic setup from the TL1000R.

People have mentioned lock up clutches, that is a good idea but a lot of fabrication.

We had a chap with no use of his left arm who road around an an Automatic Honda cb400?, he eventually went over to a newer sports bike that had been adapted but I can't remember what was done with the clutch.

Anyone with experience in electronics could maybe design a "drive by wire" clutch, the arm operated by a servo and the lever fitted with a potentiometer, again a lot of work.

The hydraulic setup that claims same throw with less effort sounds like snake oil to me but there must be some milage in it?.

I wonder what the travel distance of the pressure plate is and if you could use different plates to allow less required throw, you would then be able to alter the leverage for less effort.

Or could you have some plates made with high friction coefficient to allow lighter springs?.

We do work on a couple of 310's, next time we have one in I'll have a look.

I built a G650 X Challenge for a customer and he has been over to Morocco for a month, 6000 mile trip. We put a brand new clutch in that and it was very "touchy", a very fine line between dragging (poor neutral selection etc) and not having adequate free play, sounds similar to you issue?.

I put a lot of free play in mine to get the lever in an easier position to grasp, and that made it almost impossible to get neutral, at a standstill. I pulled over and adjusted it right up to almost no free play and it was better, but still dragging and making neutral elusive.

 

[Morrisman]

This looks interesting, worth a look?.

https://www.gilaniengineering.com.au/product/servo-assisted-clutch/

Looks interesting, but very sparse on details.

 

[Farside]

For gearchange, rob the left grip from a Vespa, and fit a foot clutch.

 

[redlig]

I put a lot of free play in mine to get the lever in an easier position to grasp, and that made it almost impossible to get neutral, at a standstill. I pulled over and adjusted it right up to almost no free play and it was better, but still dragging and making neutral elusive.

K.I.S.S. Come to a halt ,stop the engine , reach down and select neutral by hand with no need to use clutch, restart engine ready for the off. We all had to do that at sometime in the 60's thanks to dodgy clutches .