New motorcycle sales dropping - dealers shutting.

[premmington]

You forgot to add Illegally.

I fitted a big bore kit to my moped in 1983.

I have no regrets over my actions to this day....

 

[pedrobedro]

I fitted a big bore kit to my moped in 1983.

I have no regrets over my actions to this day....

You didn't ride it at 30mph on the pavement then bounce off into the road with no backward glance though did you ?

 

[premmington]

You didn't ride it at 30mph on the pavement then bounce off into the road with no backward glance though did you ?

Umm - unable to comment on the above - I was 16 at the time...


But I did enjoy my moped aged 16 - it got me to my first job - day in day. It brought me freedom/work/income...

Looking back - was living at home - Mother was feeding me - doing my washing - I got a girlfriend - I started my apprenticeship - got a job money in my pocket (even had a second job on a Saturday for extra cash). None of this would be possible without a moped...

 

[jmp49]

The 28mph 50cc moped at aged 16 - should have been 80cc and 10hp.

Think Kawasaki AR80 from the 80's - top speed just shy of 70mph.

That is fast enough to keep up with the flow of traffic on all UK roads.

No L plates on motorways - I agree with.

I come from the era of "ton up" 250cc learner bikes - X7's and 250LC's - there were even full power 21bhp RD125LC about when the law changed in 1983.

Something had to change - small bikes were just getting faster...

But the moped thing - was not very well thought out on it's inception.

I find myself sometimes when in a flow of fast moving traffic on a bigger motorbike - "sort of escorting 16yr old kids on mopeds" so they are not forced into the kerb by angry BMW and Audi drivers. I get behind them - staggered across the road behind them keeping the same speed as them - far enough away so if they do anything erratic I can get out of there way. I don't find the smell of two stroke oil and the noise of expansion chambers offensive - it reminds me of being young...

28mph looks more like a electric scooter/push bike - the 14yr old kids are whizzing about on now.
It is not that I am against motorcycle training at all - I think it is good thing - I just wish they trained car drivers to a better standard at the same time.

I did more km on my xl600 shepherding my lad on his dt50 like this at first than I did on it the rest of the year. But every so often I had to go out for a blast to clear the synapses and my engine without him...
I took the mirrors and indicators off the dt and made him ride it off road until he knew how to cope with it sliding away from him on grass and mud and cope with bumps etc, then put them back on. He'd done his cbt with a riding school already, but they cant really teach much in a few hours with 1 instructor for 8 kids on 50's.

Also got him a beginners youth track day at a local kart circuit where he learned how to fall off mostly when other kids did stupid things in front of him, but I think that taught him a few much needed lessons in itself.
On that dt50 he had, we got one from someone who raced enduro 50 class semi factory sponsored and it was the full enduro motor etc, just a speedo added. On the reciept and logbook it said standard homogulated 50 moped and it seemed to go really well and ran cleanly. There was no markings on the cylinder block apart from factory numbers and no indication it was anything but stock and it even had a fairly efficient silencer on the stinger though it yowled when really on pipe, really nice job. I never took it apart to measure or tinker with it apart to replace the steering head and wheel bearings which needed doing but I cant believe it was a 50 still. I encouraged him not to cover it in stickers and tat and keep it standard looking, and the few times he and his mates were pulled they were all over his mates sticker bombed hacked about plastics and obvious expansion chamber equipped ones and just left him alone.

I clocked it from behind at 75mph at one point, but while it might have been a bit illegal I'm happier he had more performance to get out of danger. My wife was all for re-restricting it, but I wouldnt have it.
When I had my fs1e as a callow youth, a big bore went on as soon as I had the funds, and eventually I shoehorned a tuned and overbored YG1 engine that I'd fettled in my engineering college workshop into it that was faster than friends quick garelli's and fantics but equally as fragile, with tiny clip ons and rear sets and alloy cafe racer style guards and a cb50j humped seat on this tiny little 'ped so it would have been incredibly hypocritical of me to do so and I believe he was safer having just enough power to get out of danger if needed.
Bikes were my freedom too. I didnt get a car license until my 20's when I was driving brand new cars as part of my job on private land, and my boss found out and told me to take a holiday and come back with a license, or dont come back.

 

[Domdom]

The 28mph 50cc moped at aged 16 - should have been 80cc and 10hp.

Think Kawasaki AR80 from the 80's - top speed just shy of 70mph.

That is fast enough to keep up with the flow of traffic on all UK roads.

No L plates on motorways - I agree with.

I come from the era of "ton up" 250cc learner bikes - X7's and 250LC's - there were even full power 21bhp RD125LC about when the law changed in 1983.

Something had to change - small bikes were just getting faster...

But the moped thing - was not very well thought out on it's inception.

I find myself sometimes when in a flow of fast moving traffic on a bigger motorbike - "sort of escorting 16yr old kids on mopeds" so they are not forced into the kerb by angry BMW and Audi drivers. I get behind them - staggered across the road behind them keeping the same speed as them - far enough away so if they do anything erratic I can get out of there way. I don't find the smell of two stroke oil and the noise of expansion chambers offensive - it reminds me of being young...

28mph looks more like a electric scooter/push bike - the 14yr old kids are whizzing about on now.
It is not that I am against motorcycle training at all - I think it is good thing - I just wish they trained car drivers to a better standard at the same time.

Absolutely this!

It comes back to what I said in the other thread about online safety law. Lawmakers should stick to specifying OUTCOMES, not methods. a 125cc bike can be 2 stroke or 4 stroke and both have rather different power outputs.

IMHO, the law should state something like
Learner at 16 = no more than 10hp
Learner over 16 = no more than 20hp
Restricted A license is already at (I think) 33hp
Etc. And the same could be applied to cars, limit the power output until XXXXX (insert terms)

Specify the maximum power, not the CC. I've seen highly tuned 50cc 2 strokes doing 70mph. They already specify when an electric bicycle becomes a motor vehicle, summat like 250 watts and max 15.5 mph ish. Electric scooters are basically illegal unless on private land, which just tells me the legislators are too lazy to do anything if it doesn't involve making money. In Spain they are proposing new legislation for electric scooters which would mean they have to be insured, helmets must be worn, and no more than one person on it. No reg or tax, but they have to be insured for 3rd party risks. Some poor old chap near Torrevieja is still in ICU after being run over by an electric scooter.

Rider training is a good thing, but it is becoming overly "Nanny State". Too much to do if you want a litre bike, takes years. I like to ride bigger bikes to get the larger frame (Yeah, I'm fat) but quite happy with a more modest power output. I really liked that Suzuki with switchable power levels. I think it was a GSXR1000, but you could dial back the power to that of the 750. I'm just too old for head-down, bum in the air shenanigans.

Car drivers in Spain are far better than in the UK, and it's all a lot slower in towns (30 Km/h). Comical sometimes. Oh, except roundabouts. The law says you cannot exit a roundabout from anything except the right lane, so they all just use the right lane even if going all the way round. And the right lane has priority over others. But overall, drivers here are much more cognisant and courteous towards scooters and bikes etc, with a total lack of the aggression I see on UK roads.

 

[Mick Annick]

But overall, drivers here are much more cognisant and courteous towards scooters and bikes etc, with a total lack of the aggression I see on UK roads.

Same here, much calmer on the roads than the UK

 

[willie.macleod]

It comes back to what I said in the other thread about online safety law. Lawmakers should stick to specifying OUTCOMES, not methods. a 125cc bike can be 2 stroke or 4 stroke and both have rather different power outputs.

IMHO, the law should state something like
Learner at 16 = no more than 10hp
Learner over 16 = no more than 20hp
Restricted A license is already at (I think) 33hp
Etc. And the same could be applied to cars, limit the power output until XXXXX (insert terms)

The law already does this in the UK, it's not just cc but max power is stated as well as power to weight ratio in some cases. Lots of the Chinese 125cc bikes are quite significantly lower power than allowed by UK law for some reason.

 

[premmington]

I did more km on my xl600 shepherding my lad on his dt50 like this at first than I did on it the rest of the year. But every so often I had to go out for a blast to clear the synapses and my engine without him...
I took the mirrors and indicators off the dt and made him ride it off road until he knew how to cope with it sliding away from him on grass and mud and cope with bumps etc, then put them back on. He'd done his cbt with a riding school already, but they cant really teach much in a few hours with 1 instructor for 8 kids on 50's.

Also got him a beginners youth track day at a local kart circuit where he learned how to fall off mostly when other kids did stupid things in front of him, but I think that taught him a few much needed lessons in itself.
On that dt50 he had, we got one from someone who raced enduro 50 class semi factory sponsored and it was the full enduro motor etc, just a speedo added. On the reciept and logbook it said standard homogulated 50 moped and it seemed to go really well and ran cleanly. There was no markings on the cylinder block apart from factory numbers and no indication it was anything but stock and it even had a fairly efficient silencer on the stinger though it yowled when really on pipe, really nice job. I never took it apart to measure or tinker with it apart to replace the steering head and wheel bearings which needed doing but I cant believe it was a 50 still. I encouraged him not to cover it in stickers and tat and keep it standard looking, and the few times he and his mates were pulled they were all over his mates sticker bombed hacked about plastics and obvious expansion chamber equipped ones and just left him alone.

I clocked it from behind at 75mph at one point, but while it might have been a bit illegal I'm happier he had more performance to get out of danger. My wife was all for re-restricting it, but I wouldnt have it.
When I had my fs1e as a callow youth, a big bore went on as soon as I had the funds, and eventually I shoehorned a tuned and overbored YG1 engine that I'd fettled in my engineering college workshop into it that was faster than friends quick garelli's and fantics but equally as fragile, with tiny clip ons and rear sets and alloy cafe racer style guards and a cb50j humped seat on this tiny little 'ped so it would have been incredibly hypocritical of me to do so and I believe he was safer having just enough power to get out of danger if needed.
Bikes were my freedom too. I didnt get a car license until my 20's when I was driving brand new cars as part of my job on private land, and my boss found out and told me to take a holiday and come back with a license, or dont come back.

My vixen hell raiser of a daughter aged 15/16 - got me to make up a garelli tiger cross thing - then she moved onto a 85kg Aprilia RS50 with a tuned/ported LC Derbi engine in it (honest gov it was only 50cc )

 

[Dapph2]

Chinese and Indians will have the market sewn up before long

The Norks will make them to send their troops forward for Russia in what ever conflict they choose .
Must confess I was hoping that the OP's post meant the end of mincemeat & organ doner transports. We could certainly do with that round here as something like 198 motorcycle fatalities on the road in 10 years between Llanelli & Llandovery IIRC.
Yet we keep seeing signs stating " Motorcyclists Beware !"

These might be doing better as they don't fall over so easily . https://www.lexhaminsurance.co.uk/blog/best-3-wheeled-scooters/

Plus if the France President can use one to go and get his leg over , there might be just enough of a following of randy gits thinking the same , to see production increase.

 

[Morrisman]

These might be doing better as they don't fall over so easily . https://www.lexhaminsurance.co.uk/blog/best-3-wheeled-scooters/

Plus if the France President can use one to go and get his leg over , there might be just enough of a following of randy gits thinking the same , to see production increase.

There’s a guy comes to our cafe on a 3 wheeler, I think it’s the MP3, he’s had one for many years, not sure why, never asked him. He swears by them, thinks they are great. I could see myself getting one if I start losing my sense of balance a bit.
Automatic, foot brake, heated bits and pieces, screen etc, sounds good to me.

 

[roofman]

In 1976 i walked into my Suzuki dealer with a brown envelope that had £245 cash in it, i had just bought myself an Suzuki AP50 in blue and was on the road at 16 years old...every kid i knew did the same back then and at 17 we passed our tests and bought bigger bikes, it was a given that being a young lad back then you had 2 wheeled transport and there was main dealers everywhere. Now these days a phone cost 4 times what i paid for a brand new machine... Is it me or do all bikers these days including myself all have grey or white beards, just no young blood in the game anymore because its cost prohibitive. price of these new bikes now is getting out of hand.

 

[premmington]

In 1976 i walked into my Suzuki dealer with a brown envelope that had £245 cash in it, i had just bought myself an Suzuki AP50 in blue and was on the road at 16 years old...every kid i knew did the same back then and at 17 we passed our tests and bought bigger bikes, it was a given that being a young lad back then you had 2 wheeled transport and there was main dealers everywhere. Now these days a phone cost 4 times what i paid for a brand new machine... Is it me or do all bikers these days including myself all have grey or white beards, just no young blood in the game anymore because its cost prohibitive. price of these new bikes now is getting out of hand.

£245 in 1976 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £2,253.62 today, an increase of £2,008.62 over 49 years. The pound had an average inflation rate of 4.63% per year between 1976 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 819.85%. (Google BOT numbers)

No you can't buy a 50mph moped for 2.2k in the year 2025

 

[Beanwood]

Prices of some old but reliable bikes are really quite low right now. BMW 1150gs are struggling to reach £3k - with many selling under £2k.
Mind I’ve always been at the lower cost end of things- my first was a 6 year old Honda CD175 in 1978 for £110.

 

[jimbo84]

Had a placky 90 as a teenager, bought with no MOT, used to take it on the school field just up the road for a ride round, house rules were not allowed on the road or farmers back lanes, the only place it didn’t get ridden was our street, hopped off at the end of the street to push it back home (sorry mum).

Plan was when I was old enough to do the bike test I’d get it MOTd and then get licence. It failed it’s MOT and getting an apprenticeship where a car licence was required made getting the car licence more of a priority so sold it for next to nothing to someone.

I regret not getting the bike licence and have had the urge to many times over the years, now in my 40s I’d still like to but the cost and the faff to get it is off putting. Then factor in the numerous numpties on the road looking at anything other than what’s out of the windscreen and the considerable outcomes of even a minor bump on a bike (I have a young kid to think of) and it makes it not worth it to me sadly.

 

[Robotstar5]

I learnt to ride aged 8 around my cousins farm and as I got closer to 16 my parents had no objection to me getting a moped providing I had some formal training, in the 70's the RAC & ACU got together to run bike training courses and my local one was within walking distance so every Sunday morning I would be there learning, it would be an hour or so on various bikes (they had 125 Suzukis and Bantams and a couple of mopeds) followed by an hour in the classroom, the course ended with an observed ride and you got a little certificate at the end.

 

[Morrisman]

In 1976 i walked into my Suzuki dealer with a brown envelope that had £245 cash in it, i had just bought myself an Suzuki AP50 in blue and was on the road at 16 years old...every kid i knew did the same back then and at 17 we passed our tests and bought bigger bikes, it was a given that being a young lad back then you had 2 wheeled transport and there was main dealers everywhere. Now these days a phone cost 4 times what i paid for a brand new machine... Is it me or do all bikers these days including myself all have grey or white beards, just no young blood in the game anymore because its cost prohibitive. price of these new bikes now is getting out of hand.

Young guy started work at our cafe, 16, rides a 50cc bike that looks big enough to be a 250.
He reckons his next bike, a 125, will run him £8k.

That’s for a Japanese something or other.

 

[GRW]

Young guy started work at our cafe, 16, rides a 50cc bike that looks big enough to be a 250.
He reckons his next bike, a 125, will run him £8k.

That’s for a Japanese something or other.

...... when he can pick up a cheap car with an mot for less than his 50cc cost, and pick his girlfriend up in it in the rain.
(The insurance will roger him senseless, but even then it won't be £8k).

 

[Geoffm]

you’re not wrong there. When my lad was at school, one of the kids in his class had a rather well known father. I won’t identify him as this isn’t the private forum, but let’s just say he rode superbikes for a major manufacturer’s racing team.

Anyway, I always thought I was OK on a bike, plenty of experience and also advanced rider trained. I’m reasonably handy, let’s put it that way.

So this guy organised a Dads day out at Mallory Park where we all got to ride Suzuki 600’s. So I’m going round the hairpin as fast as I dared, half hanging off the bike, knee pad scraping, back wheel twitching, giving it the beans so to speak. I felt grand! Right up to the point where the organiser rode round the outside of me, looking at me as if to ask, what’s all the fuss about then? In my defence, I was the fastest of the regular dads that day, but a good way off the pro rider’s time

Even when I tried the approach of “he can get round there at that speed, so I must be able to. It’s only physics”……yeah, it’s not only physics, it’s bloody voodoo, that’s what it is. Nearly came a cropper at over 90mph.

Many years ago, Joey Dunlop came out to New Zealand as a bit of a promotion tour thing and did some racinghere. Apparently he rode some bikes and stuff.
I was racing my Suzuki GSX400X Impulse at the time in either Formula 3 or clubmans more with enthusiasm than skill. Since he had never been to pukekohe Park before, he borrowed my bike to see which way the corners went. Despite being a tourist on a sightseeing trip around the track, he still smashed my personal best...

 

[harveyp6]

Professional riders are streets ahead of the normal rider. I proddy raced an LC250 in the eighties and some of the other guys came past me like I was standing still, so I knew I was slow, even though my bike was a bit shagged most of it was me, but I only found out that actually I was going quite fast, when I came off absolutely flat out down pilgrims drop. Quick trip to the medical centre with a dislocated shoulder expecting some sympathy from the nice St John's nurses, and all I got was "what were you riding?" Me: "LC250" Them: "Oh no, another **Language**ing headbanger...."
That put me in my place.

 

[julianthegypsy]

I've literally just seen that BSA are bringing out a new "Bantam". 350cc, water-cooled four stroke single, 29hp, £3,500. Has someone been watching this thread?