Need a HELP

[mike 109444]

I think one of the problems with the cam switches (especially when in a mig) is that they usually have to have some bridges/links to continue the common on up the stack. But the catalog/ diagram will not usually show this.
AND people seam to like taking them apart BEFORE asking about them

 

[normspanners]

The problem with three phase machines is they use various combinations of primary windings to get the required voltage out, it is not just a straight switch from one coil to the next, BUT THEN you have to do it 3 seperate times for the 3phases

 

[normspanners]

Ha Mike I was typin virt. the same thing as you were typin !!

 

[normspanners]

There you go, all that and a lot more!! (because a lot of the contactors have been removed/ blown out etc) the stuff in the tray goes in that -----little----- switch on the right, the white bits at the back are the switch cams, that have splines that connect to the green female spline, which in turn is connected to the operating shaft/ knob.

 

[burhan]

Rotary switches like that are a nightmare to match, I did a 'simple' three phase 2 segment one for a two post lift and had ALL the numbers, which I gave to the manufacturer , it was a nightmare even the company that made it and supplied the replacement got it wrong, I had to strip it and rebuild it correctly,I though oh how hard can that be -------it took hours I would not like to attempt a 6 teir one, like that one for the welder, at all.
Burhan I HOPE you have made a map/card of where all the wires go!!

Yes I made it,but I cant find the part...The connection between wires and rotary cam is not a problem

 

[burhan]

I had looking to much on their catalogue,but I cant find a switch with 0-10 contacts with 6 stages and 3 bridges or links.This is the problem
I really cant understand nothing,in my country is very hard to find a engineer to fix this problem

 

[burhan]

I think he knows that they are terminal numbers, the number he wants is the one on the label he has ringed / (rectangled actually) in red in this photo

But the problem is that when I've contacted with manufacturer,he said that need to have that number to find out the part(without that number they dont want to search more...All what they want is the number and that number is deleted in my part...

 

[normspanners]

number 9 on that list, which is part number --------T 2603 Stufenschalter / Interrupteur 5 pos. is the switch you need,

I am sure they have made a mistake saying it is 5 position (I think they have copied and pasted from the picture of the smaller machines when printing the manual)

There is no way the switch manufacturers can match it with out the correct serial number so you are going to have to buy the switch from the welder manufacturer.

OR if the switch just has a broken end shaft, just just buy a random switch of the same series and swap the first part of the switch into your switch.

 

[normspanners]

The way you were talking about it I was expecting something complicated...

before takin the preverbial you want to try and work one out matey, In there are little springs, balls, indents,hairpin springs etc etc all the switching angles / cam stops and return springs etc etc etc the combinations are worse than a safe code, so that they can be centre off and momentary either way for instance --------or are switched at 5 deg 10 -15- 45- 90 deg angles, and stay switched, or the switch has to stop at a predetermined point or maybe carry on round to the start again, all have to be set, whether the switches are double normally closed or open or one NC and the other NO, because there are two switches in each element. If you move one of the switchcams around one spline, it totally alters the config and whilst trying to hold it all together, because the switching elements want to drop out if you release the pressure on each element, it is so frustrating.

 

[julianthegypsy]

before takin the preverbial you want to try and work one out matey, In there are little springs, balls, indents,hairpin springs etc etc all the switching angles / cam stops and return springs etc etc etc the combinations are worse than a safe code, so that they can be centre off and momentary either way for instance --------or are switched at 5 deg 10 -15- 45- 90 deg angles, and stay switched, or the switch has to stop at a predetermined point or maybe carry on round to the start again, all have to be set, whether the switches are double normally closed or open or one NC and the other NO, because there are two switches in each element. If you move one of the switchcams around one spline, it totally alters the config and whilst trying to hold it all together, because the switching elements want to drop out if you release the pressure on each element, it is so frustrating.

I think he was joking...I HOPE he was joking, it looks like a nightmare. I'd be bravely running away!

 

[mike 109444]

I have worked them out - used to get them in 'kit' form and assemble to whatever combination and number of 'ways' was required.

That said - it wasn't exactly the easiest job in the world (and, you can get 'special' tools to keep the bits in place and help with alignment )

Norms got one, it's called a tupperware box ....

 

[mike 109444]

Burhan how many wires were on the switch ? Would have expected to see 10 thick plus 1 seperate thick and maybe some smaller diameter wires ?think the switch you need is on page 159 or 160 and it's map on 167 or 168 of the catalog.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

before takin the preverbial you want to try and work one out matey

I think he was joking...I HOPE he was joking

I assumed [with the smiley] he was - just as per Norm's reply.

 

[normspanners]

Norms got one, it's called a tupperware box ....

The tuperware box sorted it------ I THOUGHT-------throw it in the box forget it and buy new------ till the new one turned up and was as useless as the old one coz they had got the config wrong, but that is right---- to the serial number was their response, well it cant be was mine and at £90 each I dont think it is funny , AND I had bought a spare to save future probs !!, was reduced to rebuilding/ rejigging the new one to do the job. Argh -------then got the response but we have altered the part /serial numbers to a new overall config------- FFS!!!!.

 

[normspanners]

I do say that the job----- if you got the hang of it could be easier as time goes on --------about 50 yrs maybe------ and by then dementia will have set in.
BUT when given a box of bits and a 'can you fix this we have stripped it for you', and you think, oh a two segment rotary------- yeah no problem thats when your PROBLEMS starts.

 

[burhan]

number 9 on that list, which is part number --------T 2603 Stufenschalter / Interrupteur 5 pos. is the switch you need,

I am sure they have made a mistake saying it is 5 position (I think they have copied and pasted from the picture of the smaller machines when printing the manual)

There is no way the switch manufacturers can match it with out the correct serial number so you are going to have to buy the switch from the welder manufacturer.

OR if the switch just has a broken end shaft, just just buy a random switch of the same series and swap the first part of the switch into your switch.

I had broke shaft time ago,but when I tried to fix and stick the shaft, fortunatelly I opened the switch inside to try sticking the shaft with switch,I confound the pieces inside the switch and the result was that transformators were heating and I feared that I can burn out the transformators...in that way all begun

Maybe they can make any mistakes about 5 or 6 possition,but I explored to much about it,but I cant find that mistake,everywhere was 0-10 stage with 5 possition ,I found with 6 possition but with 12 stages...Im really confused

Another problem is that I live in Kosovo,we dont have any manufacture residency to sent the part and let them watch out and find the adequate part

You can see...61067,thats the frontal possition like in photo,but the problem is that the part got 5 possition not 6 what I need

 

[normspanners]

I had broke shaft time ago,but when I tried to fix and stick the shaft, fortunatelly I opened the switch inside to try sticking the shaft with switch,I confound the pieces inside the switch and the result was that transformators were heating and I feared that I can burn out the transformators...in that way all begun

OH UPPS !! -----right now the real problem is known ---- unfortunately it could quite easily have burn the the transformer primaries because they sometimes use a combination of primary coils used in series to get the required secondary /welding voltage steps and if mixed up the transformer fights itself internally and will heatup in seconds.
I would throw that switch in the bin, then buy a new one from the welder manufacturer. but if you have burnt the coils the welder is scrap.
The switch you have has 6 section and could have 12 switches in side it, 2 switches per section, for a three phase welder that would mean 3 identical series of switches for the 3 phases.

This picture below is taken from the catalog of the switch manufacturer??

That will NOT tell you the configeration of the switching elements,that is just the first page of that type of switch, it is just giving you the overall pysical size/ and number of sections of the switch so the number could mean 6-10-(67 ?) which will be 6 sections and 10 switch positions possibly.
I have now had a look at the catalogue and 61067 is a single pole IE sequential switching of 1phase ------surely it will need to be a 3pole switch for the 3 separate phases
BUT the combinations of the switching could be hundreds of different ways within that switch !! it is impossible to guess.
You will not be able to buy the correct switch from this page of the catalog
your ONLY way will be to get from the welder manufacturer
part number ------------T 2603 Stufenschalter / Interrupteur. which will have the bridge pieces already on it I guess.
I guess it will be many $$$$ but I am afraid you have no choice. IMO
All this and you might have already blown the transformer ??

 

[mike 109444]

Think I should have read the welder manual I linked to !!
Did not notice it was 3 phase !!
So ignore my post 34

 

[burhan]

OH UPPS !! -----right now the real problem is known ---- unfortunately it could quite easily have burn the the transformer primaries because they sometimes use a combination of primary coils used in series to get the required secondary /welding voltage steps and if mixed up the transformer fights itself internally and will heatup in seconds.
I would throw that switch in the bin, then buy a new one from the welder manufacturer. but if you have burnt the coils the welder is scrap.
The switch you have has 6 section and could have 12 switches in side it, 2 switches per section, for a three phase welder that would mean 3 identical series of switches for the 3 phases.

This picture below is taken from the catalog of the switch manufacturer??

That will NOT tell you the configeration of the switching elements,that is just the first page of that type of switch, it is just giving you the overall pysical size/ and number of sections of the switch so the number could mean 6-10-(67 ?) which will be 6 sections and 10 switch positions possibly.
I have now had a look at the catalogue and 61067 is a single pole IE sequential switching of 1phase ------surely it will need to be a 3pole switch for the 3 separate phases
BUT the combinations of the switching could be hundreds of different ways within that switch !! it is impossible to guess.
You will not be able to buy the correct switch from this page of the catalog
your ONLY way will be to get from the welder manufacturer
part number ------------T 2603 Stufenschalter / Interrupteur. which will have the bridge pieces already on it I guess.
I guess it will be many $$$$ but I am afraid you have no choice. IMO
All this and you might have already blown the transformer ??

No my transformer are ok,I just try one or twoo times and then I realize that transformer were heating,now Im not trying anymore.
Its exactly what you're saying,the switch I'll throw to the bin when I get the new one,but the problem is that I cant find it.
I need exactly a switch with 6(6x4) stages and 10 connection...

 

[normspanners]

6(6x4) stages and 10 connection...

No------ the switch has 6 sections and two switches per section, and ten switching stages ! I THINK!!
why cant you get the switch from the welder manufacturer technika ?