Moving my milling machine

[fizzy]

Didn't notice that...

But it doesn't actually change my answer all that much.


• Drain all coolant and cover all the ways and precision surfaces with cosmoline or equivalent protective grease,
• Book shipping through a reputable agent,
• Move the machines like I normally do,
• Drop them all off with whichever LTL Freight Forwarder my shipping agent has arranged for them to crate and load into a shipping container,
• Wait until they arrived,
• Go collect them,
• Regret using cosmoline only slightly less than I would have regretted them rusting in transit.


As an individual dealing with international sea freight, it's absolutely not worth trying to do the booking/paperwork yourself.

From an insurance perspective it's much better to drop the goods off to be crated and loaded by someone who will take responsibility if they are damaged or shift and damage something else in transit.

If access isn't an issue, it would probably be possible to get the shipping agent to arrange Hiab collection too, which would massively reduce the hassle involved.

Hiab on its own you are looking at £400 plus just to a local depot.
Pallet shipping far cheaper. Max weight we can move on a pallet through networks is 2000kg. More by dedicated of course.

 

[fizzy]

My new solution for personal use only . Ramps and trailer rated to 2500kg. Winch to assist if needed. Modifying ramps soon to work like a 4 post lift.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Hiab on its own you are looking at £400 plus just to a local depot.
Pallet shipping far cheaper. Max weight we can move on a pallet through networks is 2000kg. More by dedicated of course.

It is more expensive, but depending on the situation at the point of loading that cost may be worth the reduction in hassle...

HIAB is definitely something I would consider making sense if you were shipping a whole workshop, where the additional cost would be only a small fraction of the fees, duties, and freight.

 

[fizzy]

It is more expensive, but depending on the situation at the point of loading that cost may be worth the reduction in hassle...

HIAB is definitely something I would consider making sense if you were shipping a whole workshop, where the additional cost would be only a small fraction of the fees, duties, and freight.

HIAB is without a doubt the best method - but not cheap sadly. Also the operators sometimes leave a lot to be desired. Lifting lathes by their chucks with chains

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

My new solution for personal use only . Ramps and trailer rated to 2500kg. Winch to assist if needed. Modifying ramps soon to work like a 4 post lift.

View attachment 469458View attachment 469459View attachment 469460

Nice!

A powered pallet truck would definitely speed things up, but unlike in your line of work, it would be something of a luxury for me.

The last time I had to move an Aga it required something a bit more dramatic...

Dropped off at their depot, and they brought it early morning a couple of days later on the back of a unit that was going out to collect a trailer.

It's fair to say the ridiculousness of the situation greatly amused the driver, but he was impressed when I was able to get it through the front door and onto rolling corners using two tag-lines.

 

[Robotstar5]

This is me moving a Genset that weighs about 1200kg, as it's the only photos I could find.


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Same principle applied to this mill, which is 2500kg...

View attachment 469447

Took about an hour to position the trailer, rig up the winch, and then carefully lower off.

Loading it took maybe half that time, as it's much easier to remain in control when going up.

I've also used the same trick with manual rigging gear to load heavy stuff in and out of the pickup.

View attachment 469448

That's about 400kg loaded in and out using the ramp and some basic ropework.

Way less work than using a Gantry:

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which is itself quick and easy, but requires you to setup and tear down a gantry (which isn't quick or easy), twice. View attachment 469445

I had a standard towball on the front of my Landy which came in handy for getting damaged rally cars onto their trailers as I could drop the hitch onto the towball then use my winch to pull them on.

Just about see it to the left of the winch rollers.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

HIAB is without a doubt the best method - but not cheap sadly. Also the operators sometimes leave a lot to be desired. Lifting lathes by their chucks with chains

Yeah, if it's not a trusted firm with experience moving machine tools there's still risk.

When I've had to use unknown firms in the past, I've sent a lifting plan and rigging diagram to the office when booking, and insisted on either rigging it with the driver (who is often all too happy to have a brew then check my handiwork for themself), or inspecting the rigging before he lifts it.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I had a standard towball on the front of my Landy which came in handy for getting damaged rally cars onto their trailers as I could drop the hitch onto the towball then use my winch to pull them on.

Just about see it to the left of the winch rollers.

View attachment 469464

I keep meaning to fabricate one for the Hilux, as it would be very handy for both shunting and that kind of loading... In fact there's a tow ball specifically for the job, sat on the workbench at the moment.

Although the trailer has very beefy screw-down jack legs on all four corners now, so I can level it up and take it off it's wheels, which makes things a lot more stable.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Going back to @EatenFlower's question...

For the love of god liberally apply rust protection to every way, and other precision surface before sea-freighting your mill!

Whilst containers are notionally waterproof, the sea really has some oomph behind it.

Plus if it's shipped directly to a port on the west coast, or trans-shipped at the port of Singapore, then it will be in warm, humid conditions for weeks.

 

[fizzy]

Nice!

A powered pallet truck would definitely speed things up, but unlike in your line of work, it would be something of a luxury for me.

The last time I had to move an Aga it required something a bit more dramatic...

View attachment 469461View attachment 469463

Dropped off at their depot, and they brought it early morning a couple of days later on the back of a unit that was going out to collect a trailer.

It's fair to say the ridiculousness of the situation greatly amused the driver, but he was impressed when I was able to get it through the front door and onto rolling corners using two tag-lines.

Mental - that is one of the biggest HIAB style cranes you can get!
Apart from the steps up we could have shipped it on a pallet with a tail lift for pennies compared to that monster!
I wish they had used a HIAB like that to move my 2x Holbrook H20s. 5000kg each. Biggest HIAB on a 26 tonner I could find locally but it struggled on any sort of reach. Couldn't put them into my warehouse even though parked right by the entrance. Had to roller them in.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Mental - that is one of the biggest HIAB style cranes you can get!

Their choice for convenience as it was going past me anyway with no load, I was a bit surprised on the day when it rather than one of their rigid's.

Apart from the steps up we could have shipped it on a pallet with a tail lift for pennies compared to that monster!

If it wasn't for the steps I wouldn't have needed it!

Suffice to say between my fuel picking it up from the seller with the trailer and what they charged me to do that lift, the total cost was still cheaper than getting it shipped to me with a pallet line would have been.

But it was extremely convenient to them, and there is a longstanding business relationship which I assume factored in to the price when doing a job for me personally.

Anyway I would thoroughly recommend R.R. Memmory any kind of Hiab work (even paying normal rates), should you ever have the need in the Yorkshire/East Mids Region

I wish they had used a HIAB like that to move my 2x Holbrook H20s. 5000kg each. Biggest HIAB on a 26 tonner I could find locally but it struggled on any sort of reach. Couldn't put them into my warehouse even though parked right by the entrance. Had to roller them in.

Two H20's??? Sheer decadence!

Bit duff from the transport company though.

The 360XP is (if I remember correctly) rated for about 28 tonne-meters, so you'd have thought they could get a 5 tonne load at least 15-20 feet away from the wagon, stability issue with how it's installed maybe?

 

[fizzy]

Their choice for convenience as it was going past me anyway with no load, I was a bit surprised on the day when it rather than one of their rigid's.


If it wasn't for the steps I wouldn't have needed it!

Suffice to say between my fuel picking it up from the seller with the trailer and what they charged me to do that lift, the total cost was still cheaper than getting it shipped to me with a pallet line would have been.

But it was extremely convenient to them, and there is a longstanding business relationship which I assume factored in to the price when doing a job for me personally.

Anyway I would thoroughly recommend R.R. Memmory any kind of Hiab work (even paying normal rates), should you ever have the need in the Yorkshire/East Mids Region


Two H20's??? Sheer decadence!

Bit duff from the transport company though.

The 360XP is (if I remember correctly) rated for about 28 tonne-meters, so you'd have thought they could get a 5 tonne load at least 15-20 feet away from the wagon, stability issue with how it's installed maybe?

Well one is badged a H17 and the other H20 but they are identical in size. Holbrook understated everything. Well Herbert took over they said why on Earth are we selling a 20" diameter lathe and calling it a 17

The H20 was delivered by a different company. Similar size crane. They also struggled to get in through the warehouse door. Height didn't help but door is still 15' high. Didn't seem a very long reach to me. Outriggers fully extended both ends.

 

[fizzy]

I had a standard towball on the front of my Landy which came in handy for getting damaged rally cars onto their trailers as I could drop the hitch onto the towball then use my winch to pull them on.

Just about see it to the left of the winch rollers.

View attachment 469464

Very useful. I have a towball to fit onto my forklift as well.
Posh winch I use Tirfors. My.old V8 110 had a 150bhp winch. Capstan direct drive

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Well one is badged a H17 and the other H20 but they are identical in size. Holbrook understated everything. Well Herbert took over they said why on Earth are we selling a 20" diameter lathe and calling it a 17

Very nice, you're giving me available space envy!

Unfortunately my taste in machine tools (TOS, DSG & Huron) is fundamentally incompatible with the size of my workshop.

My partner has nervously joked on more than one occasion that she wouldn't put it past me to start a small engineering firm just to justify "bigger toys"... Which is not outside the realms of possiblity, but probably not an immediate life plan.

Posh winch I use Tirfors. My.old V8 110 had a 150bhp winch. Capstan direct drive

Have debated a capstan winch for the Stage 1 V8 I am restoring, they have some interesting advantages, but for working alone and lowering loads hydraulic would be more sensible.

I also have a couple of Tirfors, but they're very hard work compared to just pushing a lever.

 

[fizzy]

Very nice, you're giving me available space envy!

Unfortunately my taste in machine tools (TOS, DSG & Huron) is fundamentally incompatible with the size of my workshop.

My partner has nervously joked on more than one occasion that she wouldn't put it past me to start a small engineering firm just to justify "bigger toys"... Which is not outside the realms of possiblity, but probably not an immediate life plan.



Have debated a capstan winch for the Stage 1 V8 I am restoring, they have some interesting advantages, but for working alone and lowering loads hydraulic would be more sensible.

I also have a couple of Tirfors, but they're very hard work compared to just pushing a lever.

Certainly agree on the DSG and Huron. Sadly, or perhaps thankfully, I doubt I can beat the Holbrooks with anything else so I seem to have stopped buying lathes

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Sadly, or perhaps thankfully, I doubt I can beat the Holbrooks with anything else so I seem to have stopped buying lathes

A well kept Lang A4 might still interest you... should you ever find a need for a toolroom-class lathe bigger than 20"!

Lord knows where you'd find one though!

Certainly agree on the DSG and Huron.

Ironically it's the TOS machines I like most!

Now that might just be the Yorkshireman in me being magnetically drawn towards something that represents excellent value for money...

But it doesn't harm my perception that the S32 in my workshop will still hold a ~2 micron dimensional tolerance (if you really pay attention to every small detail of your work)!

It's just ridiculously overbuilt for it's size with the spindle running in two pressure-fed hydrodynamic bearings that take up about ⅔ of it's total length.

 

[fizzy]

A well kept Lang A4 might still interest you... should you ever find a need for a toolroom-class lathe bigger than 20"!

Lord knows where you'd find one though!


Ironically it's the TOS machines I like most!

Now that might just be the Yorkshireman in me being magnetically drawn towards something that represents excellent value for money...

But it doesn't harm my perception that the S32 in my workshop will still hold a ~2 micron dimensional tolerance (if you really pay attention to every small detail of your work)!

It's just ridiculously overbuilt for it's size with the spindle running in two pressure-fed hydrodynamic bearings that take up about ⅔ of it's total length.

Always admired TOS but thought they were hefty rather than precise!

 

[sako243]

Have debated a capstan winch for the Stage 1 V8 I am restoring, they have some interesting advantages, but for working alone and lowering loads hydraulic would be more sensible.

Plus you can have more than one then. I was extremely kindly donated a PTO and hydraulic pump for the back of an LT95 - just got to rework the handbrake to clear it. Definitely going to have a winch up front but might well see if I can locate one onto the bed for some sort of RORO set up.

Many things to do on the 6x6 before then though - only about 50% of the way through wiring up my custom ECU to control the 4.6 that's been dropped in there, work keeps getting in the way

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Always admired TOS but thought they were hefty rather than precise!

I mean they were not so much a company as 7½ different businesses hiding under a red army greatcoat!

Three were focused on pretty high-end gear:
• Zebrak (Toolroom Lathes and Deckel FP clones),
• Hostivar (Surface, Cylindrical, and Tool Grinders)
• Zbrojovka (Horological/Swiss Lathes)

The other businesses focused on the beasty equipment:
• Trencin (medium-large sized Gearhead Lathes),
• Čelákovice (large Gearhead Lathes),
• Skóda (shipyard-sized Horizontal Borers & Center Lathes, Oil-Country Lathes, and Vertical Boring Lathes),
• Varnsdorf (Horizontal Borers, and Elgamill clones),
• Kûrim (Horizontal mills, Huron clones, and a 1.5× scale Bridgeport clone)


The big stuff seems to have been what was popular in the UK, and you rarely see their precision stuff here, but it's somewhat common on the continent, especially in the Netherlands, Germany, & Austria...


When I bought the S32, the widow I was purchasing it from gave me the whole backstory.

Her husband purchased it from an advert in the newsletter of model engineering club outside Amsterdam, only to arrive at the address to collect it and discover that it was the horological workshop of the Dutch royal household, he liked the lathe it so much that when he retired he insisted they shipped it back to the UK with them even though he sold and re-bought the rest of his machinery.


Interestingly, despite competition from the far east, all* of those former TOS branded businesses are still running today, making both manual and CNC machines...

Although they're no longer cheap, charging the modern equivalent of DSG and Holbrook prices!

* The one I counted as "& ½", Zbrojovka was a satellite site of TOS Kûrim, and doesn't appear to exist as a distinct brand anymore.

 

[northwest]

Two H20's??? Sheer decadence!

He has cornered the market in them but what he hasn't told you is that one of them is mine, just as soon as I build a workshop big enough for it.

A well kept Lang A4 might still interest you... should you ever find a need for a toolroom-class lathe bigger than 20"!

Lord knows where you'd find one though!

India. That's where all the Langs went to.

Interestingly, despite competition from the far east, all* of those former TOS branded businesses are still running today, making both manual and CNC machines...

Poland and the Czech Republic are going to be the new industrial powers in Europe as far as I can see, forget Germany, they have lost the plot. The Czech Republic were very canny in staying out of the Euro and just joining Europe and the Shengen zone.