Land Rover V8 restoration - what have I got myself into?

[willie.macleod]

View attachment 470152
Attempting to install the correct screws in the doors didn't go to plan at all.

No idea what went wrong, but extracting that J Nut was an utter nightmare.

The captive nuts come in 5/16th UNF or M8 flavours, wonder if someone somewhere mixed it up?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

The captive nuts come in 5/16th UNF or M8 flavours, wonder if someone somewhere mixed it up?

Possibly.

What material were the J nuts and screws made of?

Stainless will sometimes seize up (think its called galling)

Also a possibility, I am pretty religious about using either thread sealant or grease which usually prevents galling. However as that J-nuts was floating loosely, I could have misaligned the nut and cross-threaded it which would cause horrendous galling.

Stainless steel screws and bolts. NO. If they are screwed into normal steel fittings, will corrode more that ordinary steel.

I'm only using SS-SS or Galv-Galv and making sure SS is isolated from Alu or mild steel with either a coating or rubber washer.

Ultimately I might still be wrong and you can have a told-you so moment in a few years time... But my previous experience is that SS fasteners used with some sort of galvanic isolation tends to result in better maintainability.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Youve done a great job of the patina paint work. Reading this thread just reinforces when I dont want an old Landrover!

The trick is to have the previous owner get halfway through respraying it, then abandon it in a hedge for 20 years!

Actually joking aside, I can't leave it with just primer once it moves outside the tent, and painting things will be easier now than at any future point, so there's a decision point to be made here...

A number of friends have commented that the patina is in-keeping with the vehicle's history, and would be interesting to preserve.


I am somewhat unconvinced by that and feel that if it's done before about May, it will get dirty enough to look "real" in the 2 minute drive from my yard to the main road, and trying to preserve a knackered paint finish will actually make keeping rust under control much harder long term.

But I am still undecided, and if I do want to go that route, I should paint any sections that need it with the original colour (Massai Red).

But I don't have any Massai Red paint, and I do have enough paint for the vehicle in:
• Toyota Metallic Dark Blue,
• Mazda Pearlescent Blaze Yellow,
• BS381c - 315 Grapefruit,
• RAL 4008 - Signal Purple


I figure if I'm buying new paint, it should definitely be one of the original four "Lego Brick" primary colours the V8 came in:

Inca Yellow

Java Green

Pageant Blue

Massai Red


My specific Landy was the very last Stage 1 V8 Factory Marketing Vehicle that LR had before discontinuing the model (and one of only four such vehicles, with one other surviving) and is in one or two publicity shots, in red...

Which is an argument for keeping it original, as it may appeal to a collector, should I want to sell it in the future.

On the other hand, I'm not a rivet counter, and like the look of all three of the other colours, and the idea of Purple (maybe sign written in gold) more...

Also the Mazda Yellow would be a close match for Inca Yellow (but get somehow yellower as you move round it, the effect is subtle but eye-melting).

This might be a more difficult choice than any of the actual repair work.

 

[OJCar]

My 2p.
Unless you are going to over paint every place on the car that is Massai Red it will look utterly ****.
Just paint it Massai Red.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

My 2p.
Unless you are going to over paint every place on the car that is Massai Red it will look utterly ****.
Just paint it Massai Red.

If I'm spraying it a new colour, I'm spraying all of it, dash-off, seats out, doors and wings off, proper job. Agree you can't half-**** that kind of thing.

However you make a convincing argument for Massai Red...

I could avoid the project creep of having to launch into doing that cosmetic work right now, whilst it's still got a lot of serious electrical and mechanical work to do.

That way it might actually be done by next May.

 

[sako243]

I figure if I'm buying new paint, it should definitely be one of the original four "Lego Brick" primary colours the V8 came in:

Arguably it's not an original being heavily modified by Hotspur for Land Rover but I'd have said that the doors look to be original paint and look to be much darker blue than the one above so maybe another option?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Arguably it's not an original being heavily modified by Hotspur for Land Rover but I'd have said that the doors look to be original paint and look to be much darker blue than the one above so maybe another option?

Hard to say.

It looks a lot like Oxford Blue, but is also similar to the colour quite a few Pagent Blue V8's have faded to with time (a BL product not standing up to the test of time, who'd have thought it!)...

View attachment 470212

Of course I could take a leaf out of your current book, and go with "Harlequin" to match my favourite shorts....

(Photo taken in response to a kiwi friend asking if I could fit a hammer in my pocket, using the copper sledge hammer for comic effect)

Or going down that route a bit Furthur, if we assume any "proper" paint job is going to be a later addition I could just let my freak flag fly, and go full Timothy Leary on it.

Replete with "The Electric Kool-Aid Arc-Welding Acid Test" banners.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Well that was awkward.

But not as bad as cutting this out with the oscillating multi-tool.

That had conveniently rusted away years ago.

And the bulkhead Acme nuts came out with only a great deal of force, after I got the spiral-grippy sockets out to hold what was left of their heads.

Revealing our next victim.

 

[OJCar]

And the bulkhead Acme nuts came out with only a great deal of force,

If you give the Acme bolts a few really good belts with a long drift and a BFH before you attempt to undo them,
they generally undo quite easily.
Shocks the spire nut into letting go.

< Now you tell me he says ... >

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

If you give the Acme bolts a few really good belts with a long drift and a BFH before you attempt to undo them,
they generally undo quite easily.
Shocks the spire nut into letting go.

< Now you tell me he says ... >

Well, giving the extension bar a thorough wallering with the medium cover hammer to seat the spiral grippy sockets of last resort, might have done more than just make me feel better then.

The problem was that most of the hex itself was corroded off, presumably due to the absence of mudguards.

I have a mate coming over tomorrow evening to help me get the pedal box disassembled, so hopefully by Friday I will be welding it up again.

I also ordered more J-nuts and some replacement door-bottom channels, as a bit of a prod at one of them revealed some very neat (but ultimately counterproductive) fibreglass work concealing rust.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Well that was a qualified success.

Door bolts were spinning to the extent that drilling was impossible so we had to cut into the rubber gasket with an oscillating tool, and chop the bolts.

I have managed to loose the key to the pedal lock, which was on my key-bunch... and the spare which is "somewhere safe".

Liking the keyed chuck cordless drill though, it deals a lot better with "grabby" drilling tasks.

Brake and clutch pedals came out easily revealing the extent of the issues much more clearly...

The steering column support came out easily too, so far so good.

The steering drop arm retaining nut was a bit awkward because the only thing I had that fits it is an MOD surplus Britool ¾" socket set, apparently standard issue for the maintenance of Chieftain tanks, and proportioned accordingly.

Loosening off the breather pipe, I was able to get that in and slacken it off.

Which is where the fun begins... The steering drop arm will not come off it's spline for love nor money.

Failures include:
• Prying,
• Heating with a MAPP torch and prying
• Letting it cool and using a 3-leg puller
• Heating it up with MAPP giving it some taps with a hammer, then using the 3-leg puller again (which is no longer 3 legged),
• Heating it up with oxy-acetylene using a welding nozzle to as much of the the heat as possible into the arm.
• Using a ball-joint splitting wedge and hammer whilst still hot.
• Using MT release wedges on both sides with a bigger hammer.
• Heating it again with the Oxy then getting a much beefier 2-leg puller in (wouldn't line up right)
• Putting a blade type puller on, and using a 3ft breaker bar with a 2ft scaffold extension (didn't damage the puller, but you could see it flexing).

Nothing even budged the bloody thing.

I have ordered the Sykes-Pickavant special puller tool to try to release it, but given how it was dealing with the blade puller, I am not hopeful.

If that puller doesn't work alone I guess I could get it really packed in with welding blankets and put a medium sized oxy-propane heating nozzle in there to get it orange hot, then put the puller on and try to separate it that way.

It's not inconceivable that I will need to cut it off with a torch, grind or mill the remaining bits off the shaft until the remainder can be removed with a chisel, and replace the whole arm, which feels pretty extreme.

I am also concerned about the impact of all of this on the steering box internals, there's a lot of heat in particular gone into it tonight, so I will probably have to rebuild it if only to replace the seals (at which point I might as well replace the ball bearings and race adjusters too).

I guess I won't be welding tomorrow, but can probably get the brake and clutch pedal assemblies inspected, cleaned up, and (assuming no repairs needed) blasted and primed...

One less job for later!

 

[sako243]

@8ob has the proper tool for this and it's amazing what it can do. Tighten up, leave for a bit, tighten up again, **** with a hammer and ping it comes off.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

@8ob has the proper tool for this and it's amazing what it can do. Tighten up, leave for a bit, tighten up again, **** with a hammer and ping it comes off.

This is encouraging news!

I guess I will find out for myself in the next few days, hopefully fully cooling down after heating will have loosened it a little too.

 

[jo1010]

This is encouraging news!

I guess I will find out for myself in the next few days, hopefully fully cooling down after heating will have loosened it a little too.

Tbh - sorry don't even try - just split the arm off with a slitting disc and buy another. Saves a lot of aggro

 

[OJCar]

@8ob has the proper tool for this and it's amazing what it can do. Tighten up, leave for a bit, tighten up again, **** with a hammer and ping it comes off.

This.
Never had any success with three legged pullers getting these off.
Bought proper puller - now they come off.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Tbh - sorry don't even try - just split the arm off with a slitting disc and buy another. Saves a lot of aggro

Well, I've bought "the super puller" now, so I am definitely going to try before buying a new arm.

But had I been aware in advance how much of a pain it was, I might well have planned to just cut it off and had a new one in stock.

This.
Never had any success with three legged pullers getting these off.
Bought proper puller - now they come off.

I figured the three legged puller was ambitious... But usually the blade puller set will split things.

The max force output from its M16 thread is equivalent to a 11-ton press (but is actually fairly effortless when you have a 5ft lever, and 110kg of ape to pull on it).

I am assuming that the "special tool" puller works because it's got more rigidity to avoid losing any of the force to flexing.

 

[jo1010]

Well, I've bought "the super puller" now, so I am definitely going to try before buying a new arm.

It's one of the worst jobs on a series - only equalled by removal of the steering relay....I've known people try and fail on that ....

 

[Cobbler]

It's one of the worst jobs on a series - only equalled by removal of the steering relay....I've known people try and fail on that ....

When I thought I was going to have to change one the advice I got was to cut out the chassis & weld it back in after…. As it turned out I didn’t need to get it out.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

It's one of the worst jobs on a series - only equalled by removal of the steering relay....I've known people try and fail on that ....

When I thought I was going to have to change one the advice I got was to cut out the chassis & weld it back in after…. As it turned out I didn’t need to get it out.

This I have experience of helping a friend at Uni change one on his series 3 in the halls carpark.

We used a big piece of u-channel between two 30T bottle jacks (borrowed from his employer, as he was working part time as an agricultural contractor round lectures) on the chassis rail, some chain wrapped underneath and his largest socket as a spacer, to pull upwards from underneath with an alarming amount of force

From that experience I would tend to agree that if it doesn't come easily cutting it out is the way... But would probably try to burn through the relay itself with Oxy or Air-Arc, rather than cut the chassis.

Hopefully I won't have to engage with that issue any time soon though.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Little bit more progress today.

Cut the steering linkage off with the gas torch, which took all of about 2 seconds, and withdrew the steering box.

Getting the spline off on the bench was a different matter, cutting it with the angle grinder down to just shy of the splines and splitting it with a chisel did nothing to release it, had to do that twice more to break it off in ⅓'s.

Cut out the rusted out upper bulkhead section, planed down a bit of wood to use as a former, and made a patch/flange, and added a couple of details to match the removed section.

The fit-up was not my best work, but ok.

Decided that between the poor fit-up, and the issues I had making continuous butt welds in thin metal previously it would be better to do it with gas welding.

It took a minute to get my hand back in, and I could have got a slightly better result if I'd thought about tacking up differently, but actually I think it went faster than if I'd done it with the MIG, possibly not quite as neatly though.