Ironworkers

[Welderpaul]

I'd go for a Geka if i were you. Plenty about.
If you are buying a bit of kit like that it's obviously there to earn you money. You can't have it letting you down.

 

[Hitch]

Although I'd say the kingsland was easier to strip down, to fit tube notchers etc. what's the setup on your geka stripper Paul? ours is hydraulic....

 

[astro_al]

What about alternatives - Ficep? Baileigh? Other?

 

[Welderpaul]

what's the setup on your geka stripper Paul? ours is hydraulic....

Its a fabricated frame affair, hinged on the left hand side; swings out of the way to change the punch, then swings back and locates over a stud on the right hand side; springs on it. Rattles about on the locating stud so it is worn to hell but still works fine.
Adjusts up and down on threads to keep it close to the workpiece although its just left screwed tight in the uppermost position to get 20mm plate in.

Thought about those nylon stripper jobs, supposed to limit bending in the material but not sure how effective it would be. I'll get a pic of ours next week. Hydraulic stripper sounds fancy - operates a bit like the hold-downs on a guilly?

 

[Welderpaul]

What about alternatives - Ficep? Baileigh? Other?

I think Kingsland and Geka are the most widely used in industry. I'd make my choice from one of the two.

 

[Hitch]

I seem to recall one of them doesn't exist anymore....?

Sounds identical to the Kingsland stripper then. Hydraulic one comes down with the punch, works well. Might only have that on the NC machines then.

 

[Jack]

Hi al,

i'm in a similar position to yourself, i work on my own in a little shed making all sorts of different things.

i invested in a small kingsland 40 this time last year mainly for punching holes in connection plates and feet/brackets etc. i looked around for months trying to find anything suitable and within my budget, i didnt need massive pressure so it was perfect, anyway here are some pointers i would look out for if i bought one again.

1. as mentioned before, the stripper on all new kingslands are rubbish, especially for close to edge punching so i ended up making some mods to mine (narrowing the gap between the fingers) which allowed me to punch alot closer to the edge and reduce distortion in thinner plates.

2. always use some sort of oil/cutting fluid/soluable oil when punching as it will make the stripping much easier for the machine and reduce distortion.

3. the kingsland i have is configuired so it is pretty much impossible to punch angles with out their special tool (which only fits on certain models)

4. punching a smaller hole than the thickness of the plate (for instance punching a 6mm hole through 10mm) will result in many broken punches so they arent much use for that.

5. the squaring guides on the new style kingslands are sh*te, you just cant tighten them enough to stop them moving, which results in having to check them every so many cuts, punches etc. also the tables arent marked or graduated from the centre in any way (unlike the gekas) which is a pain in the ****. (as soon as i get my hands on a mill next month i will be cutting a recess for two steel rules and machining some guides to slide squarely along the table)

6. as for touch and cut, ive seen em available up to 1m long, but as paul says if they are a distance away, the material will bend and miss the stop (somewhat annoying). i knocked up a bit of tubing with a rotating slide on it, just measure away from the back of the blade, tighten up and cut away.

7. positioning in the workshop: can be awkward if you havent got a lot of space, especially if your going to be feeding full lengths through the machine, and you need to consider what sort of lengths you are going to have coming out the back.

8. the bar cropping facility will leave you with a burr.

9. there is no real way of setting a spacing on a length of flat bar, so for instance if you are thinking of punching a series of holes along a 2 metre flat bar (for making railings) you are still going to have to mark out the spacing with chalk before hand.

10. there are probably 20 or more brands of ironworkers, punches and parts are available for almost all of them off the shelf. but it all depends what you are looking for. edwards do a single phase option which might be handy depending on circumstances. all though kingsland were a british company, the are now owned by Haco and the machines are made elsewhere. plus kingslands customer service is probably the worst i have ever come across. its almost like the dont want to sell anything to you. (to order a single punch you have to ring them, then confirm with an official company order, faxed or emailed to them, then they ring you back and take payment over the phone. this took over 5 months for them to do once, never again!)

anyway after all that rant, the ironworker has saved me soooo much time, especially on heavier work, and would recommend buying one any day.

hope thats of some help
cheers, Jack

 

[Windy Miller]

Hmmm very interesting thread! Before reading this I had no idea what an ironworker was. I guess that's because my background in welding has been more biased toward car rapairs. I have watched a few videos on YouTube and now I have slightly more understanding of what you guys are talking about. One question though - what is the stripper and why is it called a stripper? Thats two questions really but let's not be picky!

 

[astro_al]

Thanks for the further input guys.

Windy - the stripper is the soft pink thing with the two big round... No, ok wait, its the bit that holds the material down as the punch tool is withdrawn after being pressed through to make a hole. If it doesn't support the material well, as the punch retracts the material will be pulled up with it and bent slightly (or a lot!).

Thanks for your comments Jack. I think I'd better go and see some in person. I'm looking at a Kingsland Compact 60, probably - or equivalent. To be honest i think they all have their idiosyncrasies that just need dealing with. I'm good for space and 3 phase, so no real probs. Did you get the training from Kingsland when you did yours? It is a bonus when buying new, but really, how hard can it be - stick material in, stamp on pedal. Right?

Ta, Al.

 

[Windy Miller]

Cheers for the explanation Al, It makes a bit more sense now. How much of this type of work could be achieved using a fly press? Obviously there would be massive limitations with the thickness of the steel, but with the right toolling would notching, shearing, and punching be possible?
I'm not suggesting that it would be an alternative for a fab shop, but for someone like me messing about in the garage, would it be a workable proposition?

 

[astro_al]

Yup!

 

[Welderpaul]

The stripper needs to be fairly robust; whatever the tonnage is to punch the hole through the piece of steel, it takes 1/3rd of the pressure to pull the punch back out again.

 

[agri-fabs]

i purchased a kingsland 45xa earlier in the year, and i must say its a fantastic piece of kit, its a 240v single phase (direct from kingsland £7700 new) i give £2600 for it! landed!

its saved me so much time, i used to cut with a chopsaw and drill with a magdrill but i hardly use these now!!

the only question i havefor you guys who already have ironworkers is, when replacing/turning the cropper blades what tolerances should they be set at for cropping 6-10mm?


hope someone can help

regards

chris
www.agri-fabs.co.uk

 

[astro_al]

Good to hear. Why not call Kingsland for a manual - bet its only a tenner and would have lots of useful info.

Al.

 

[agri-fabs]

yeah it probably would be worth it... just dont have time to think about things like this untill i get home in the nights! too late to phone around then!!

 

[astro_al]

Send an email.

sales ( a t ) kingsland.com

Al.

 

[agri-fabs]

i will do that now!! thanks!

 

[Hitch]

Blade gaps should normaly be about 10% of material thickness, so in your range about 0.75mm should be about right.

 

[Jack]

al - i bought mine direct from kingsland, but it was a refurb so no training supplied. but yeah all i did was have a look on youtube and read the manual for a basic introduction. as they are such a basic machine there isnt much to go wrong with them, or set up. all you have is a set of limit switches, make sure the motor is wired to go the right way and check the oil levels are ok, oh and when you buy the punches make sure you go a size up for the die, for instance 10mm punch, 11mm die. if you do buy a new one, for some reason they put a pin in the base of the foot pedal which needs to be taken out before use, this confused me for at least 4 hours.

cheers

 

[agri-fabs]

thanks hitch! do you know if the blades can be re-ground if it turns out all sides are worn out?

i purchased a 12mm, 14mm, 18mm, 22mm, 26mm, from msn punch pro, they are a company based up north, fantastic service i must say! £99 delivered, bought through ebay! real good tooling!

gonna get back in touch with them soon as i need a 'euro profile' and an 'oval profile' punch, these will be used to make cover plates to go around door locks (the type a pvc door has)

my kingsland is the best machine ive bought! its in full use everyday and has never missed a beat!