Ironworkers

[s410man]

Hmm, I'm miffed to hear that, I've had some good quotes for a Kingsland over the last couple of days, plus they're made in the UK.

What model have you got? What exactly don't you like on it?

Ta, Al.

had to reinforce the stripper 3 times and it still cracked so i made a new one

the peice the stripper bolts to has been reinforced

poor visibility of the cutting blade

nowhere to store the punches-sides on top of punch

no handle on the foot control which menas you have to kick to move-handle made

stripper spring is to weak-extra one fitted

no depth stop on shear-made one

blades chip easily

very cheap castors which jam easily

the retaining bolt for the die stripped its thread virtually immediately so a bloch had to be welded on the back to reinforce it

no square lines scribed on the table

no square clamp-made one

no attachment for repetive centres punching-made one

all of these problems are either noted or we have improved them

i think on a machine costing that much that its not good enough

i have only ever used a geka and a kingsland but the geka seemed better but i think it is more expensive

for relatively little extra cost most of these problems could be resolved

some were obvious before the machine was ever used

does make you think it was designed and sold without real world testing

 

[astro_al]

S410, thanks for that. Exactly what I'm expecting to find to be honest. I am kind of getting my mind ready for some necessary customisation! Sounds like I could start a business making better parts for them!

I have had some quotes for Morgan Rushworth ironworkers. They are a little more money but supposedly a bit better quality. Anyone every seen one?

Cheers Al

 

[Hitch]

Strange, must be lots of optional extras. Depth stops, corner stops. No springs on the stripper, nor castors, I imagine that's a machine intended for light duty tasks.?

 

[Dov]

Have an old Ficep, fantastic for shearing and notching not got a punch on it.

Have a contract of fabricating 465 metres of railings and 30 gates on at the moment and we use the Ficep for the vertical intermediate bars which are 30x8mm flat bars.

Couldn't do without it.

,

 

[nickk]

the m/c referred to by s410 was bought by me new in '04,it is NOT a badly designed m/c-it does have 2 weak areas,both of which have been improved by us they are;the stripper &its mounting & the thread retaining the die.Long term i forsee strengthening the supports holding the cropper table as this flexes.Most products can be improved upon somewhere in the design,however this does'nt make them a bad design it just shows up their weak areas.

 

[Welderpaul]

I would see weak areas as a bad design. I wouldnt expect to pay good money for a new machine and then have to start beefing it up/strengthening it.

 

[astro_al]

Absolutely. the fact is, they are built to a price, and that necessitates weaknesses. I was saying earlier that I'd rather pay a few hundred more for it and have those weaknesses eliminated in the design than have to fix them myself - I bet most people would, but I guess they buy it based on the sticker price.

But something that breaks under normal use in a reasonable time-frame is definitely a bad design.

Unfortunately it is all too common. I don't think I've tested or own a modern tool that I have any real respect for. All the ones I can rely on are old.

Al.

 

[astro_al]

Right. Anyone ever used Sunrise iron-workers? They are made in Taiwan, but hey, at least they're honest about the fact - found out today that the Kingsland ironworker I was looking at is made in China (apparently the multi's are made here, but the cheaper compacts are shipped in). So they lied to me directly about that which is quite annoying. Besides, I've heard nothing but good things about Taiwanese engineering - anyone got any thoughts?

They are a little more expensive, but they seem to be better machines - comes with a touch-and-cut as standard, plus a work light (ooh!), plus hydraulic hold-downs on the plate shear and angle and bar shear stations - that's a real nice feature I think. Also has a pure-vertical action on all stations unlike the Kingslands and some of the other cheaper ones (pivotted shearing action), so less material deformation, less stress on punches etc. Also looks to have better tables than the others.

I'll probably do a little tour to check them all out, just wondered if anyone had any experience of them?

I think I've ruled out the Kingsland. Every tool I have touched or seen from China has been utter crap. Plus they lied about it, and the more I hear, the worse they get (maybe the Multi's are better - I hope so).

...?

Al.

 

[Welderpaul]

Geka....

 

[s410man]

plus a work light (ooh!), plus hydraulic hold-downs on the plate shear and angle and bar shear stations - that's a real nice feature I think. Also has a pure-vertical action on all stations unlike the Kingslands and some of the other cheaper ones (pivotted shearing action), so less material deformation, less stress on punches etc.
...?

Al.

a work light would be useful as it can be hard to see a scribe line with all the gaurds blocking the light

is there hydraulic hold downs on the punch as well as wehenever a series of holes is punched in a bar it produces a large curve which takes time to straighten

if there is a hydraulic hold down ensure that it only activates when the punch is nearly hitting the metal as when the punch is a inch away it is difficult to accurately align holes before the metal is clamped

 

[s410man]

S410, thanks for that. Exactly what I'm expecting to find to be honest. I am kind of getting my mind ready for some necessary customisation! Sounds like I could start a business making better parts for them!

I have had some quotes for Morgan Rushworth ironworkers. They are a little more money but supposedly a bit better quality. Anyone every seen one?

Cheers Al

a lot of the points i have made may be available as optional extras but i am fairly sure there were no mounting holes for a shearing depth stop never mind touch and cut

i think you should be careful whn selecting a machine to find one which is STRONG enough as i think this is the most important part

extras can be made or brought but the base machine must be of a sturdy construction